Good article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11812910/

There is also some stuff in the article about battery disposal. It's nice to see this topic is getting some decent exposure.

Oh noes!!11eleven What will all the haters say now?

The haters say the report is written by Bradley Berman, of HybridCars.com Funny how HybridCars.com is supported by Hybrid Advertising. My favorite part of the article is when he supports his facts with other atricles that HE WROTE LoL yeah very Objective there

"In todays news President Bush was declared #1 president of all time. Check out www.dickcheney.com/bushisnumber1.html to read why bush is declared #1 president of all time

Chief editor
Dick Cheney"

I also love how he eludes to the Energy Department stating they have tested battery packs and quit at 160,000 miles yet he provides no supporting link. Heck not even Google, or a search on the energy Departments own website shows any specifics. Also, their are MANY different packs. Insight, HCH1, HCH2, Prius1, Prius2, FEH. That is 6 different battery packs, which one is he referring to?


"There's little to no information about the cost for replacing a hybrid battery, because it hasn't been a requirement with today's models"

Yeah Right.

Fortunately we have those links under this thread. Enjoy!

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

Thanks, And just as i suspected

"•Civic & Insight -6 continuously variable transmission (CVT) failures in 4 vehicles @ 97k, 99k, 89k & 77k miles. Again @ 157k & 146k miles
•Insight battery control module & traction battery replaced @ 72k miles
•Insight & Civic -7 software upgrades & 3 catalytic converters replaced
•Gen I Prius -rack & pinion replacements 1st Prius @ 106k, & 2ndPrius @ 25k & 32k miles
•Other HEVs –normal maintenance @ lower mileages"


I would also like to point out, in this followup report

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/hev/end_of_life_test_1.pdf

Out of the 2 insights in that test, 1 didnt make it past 146,000 miles because the repairs were deemed to COSTLY to continue

Also, out of the 2 HCH in the test their remains capacity is rated at

68.3%

Out of the 2 Insights (One failing much sooner then the other) the remaining capacity is rated at

84%

And the 2 prius at

39.2%

givin an average of 63.83% cap left average. Sorry but that is not "Like new"

I'll add my experience with a hybrid battery pack failure at nearly 94,000 miles, starting with user error (i.e. me). About 3.5 years after the purchase of my 2000 Insight 5-speed, the original 12-volt battery went dead on a couple of weekends. The hybrid battery gauge was at zero - the radio lost it's stations. I just put the battery charger on a couple of times when this happened and got a replacement 12-volt battery. This was probably the worst thing to alllow happen to the hybrid battery pack.

An old cordless phone of mine was notorious for needing a battery replacement if the charger was disconnected for a few hours. It may not have used NiMH batteries, but totally dead batteries must be bad in the Insight as the BCM and MCM units apparently protect against that.

The second worst thing is keeping the Assist on for over thirty seconds at a time - let off on the accelerator and/or downshift.

I did not do much hypermiling the first three years of my Insight. In fact, it was on the fast side (70-75mph). At least three evenings a week, someone would get me hissed off, and I'd pick up the gauntlet, doing 95mph typically. This would obviously stress the batteries. This was on the Bush Tollway before the state troopers and higher gas prices pushed the speed limit under 75mph (in a 60 zone). Failure to drive on the rightmost side also inadvertantly made it easier for the aggressive drivers to get under my skin. On an out of town trip, pride did it again when I cruised at 95mph for about an hour and a half to keep a @#$# Suburban in my rearview mirror in the Texas panhandle. Yes, I put a strain on the Assist. I think it can be said it's remarkable that my Insight went over 93,000 miles with only an O2 sensor adjustment....

It's come up in forums before - do battery packs in manual transmissions fail faster than the ones in automatics? My answer is: "No, unless you drive it hard". If the 5-speed driver remembers to downshift more during climbs, watch the charge, etc, the battery pack life should be just as long as a hybrid with an automatic. I'd go so far as to add be even more careful if you buy the MIMA hack for the Insight - you don't want the charge to dip under 40% and shorten the battery pack life.

The software in the MCM and BCM units are supposed to be improved, so I expect with better hardware and better driving sense, I could go at least 150,000 miles on this set of batteries.

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

What do you base your information on? Because if you read the failure threads at IC you will see a WHOLE range of people have failing packs. Batterries are consumable. They Die and will need to be replaced. I do agree with you on mima that they are potentially playing with fire


Here is a look into various batteries

http://www.buchmann.ca/Article9-Page1.asp

Regardless of size, NIMH is a limited battery technology that will fail and has characteristics that once it reaches failure point, it deteriorates fast. This is what we see in alot of complaints. People know their packs are deteriorating before the light.


Here is a poll done on a relitivly OLD newsgroup (old meaning it started up like 4-5 years ago)

Question

Has your battery been replaced?

Responses

Choices Votes%% reply Yes, Once 10 30

Yes, Twice 0 0

No, But I feel the end is near 4 12

No, everything is A.OK I don't forsee a failure 19 57


Even with the small sample of 33 insight owners, 42% have either Had battery failur or believe the end is near.

I have simply detailed my experience with the 2000 Insight 5-speed as completely as possible. A number of 2000 Insights have experienced battery pack problems, but the software has been upgraded to keep the lowest charge higher. I'm confident this be an improvement...

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

What the heck does that mean? Do the people who gave that response have anything other than a "feeling"?

I have a feeling that we're all going to die.

What difference is that to the people who say "I have a feeling my battery is going to last forever and my hybrid purchase will save me money"



When you drive in your car every single day, YOU KNOW when it starts to perform in-adequate. Please, Read my story by clicking my avatar and find out how my "feeling" came true