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Originally Posted by gpsman1
You didn't say up front you were talking about TOY cars.
For real cars, this is not a viable option.
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There is no reason why you can't use Lithium-ion in "real cars".
How about the E-drive plug-in Prius, it has 9 kWh of lithium-ion onboard to provide 120-150 mpg for the first 50 miles of each day's travel. Seems pretty real-world to me.
http://www.edrivesystems.com/faq.html
Eight years ago, you could have rented a LiIon
Nissan Altra and decided it was pretty real-word and practical.
AC-Propulsion, the makers of the T-zero, are using the same LiIon battery packs to convert Toyota Scions to electric drive at real-world prices, today.
Other than this, you have to go abroad, specifically to China, to see "real-world" lithium-ion EVs in use.
Chinese company Thundersky make bikes, cars, and even buses using LiIon alone.
BYD, the second largest manufacturer of LiIon in the world, has been testing LiIOn EV taxis in Shenzhen, and is putting 400 km range LiIon EVs into production this year. More to the point, they reckon they will be able to sell LiIon EVs to the Chinese market for just $10,000.
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Originally Posted by gpsman1
By toy car, I mean $500,000 to get one
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Lithium-ion EVs do NOT have to be this expensive!
These cars are only this expensive because they are made by hand by small high-tech companies in volumes of 1-20 per year. Any vehicle made like this, aiming for the millionaire market will be this expensive, regardless of drivetrain.
For an unbiased view of the real costs of LiIon, please read this study performed by Argone labs (in the US):
http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/149.pdf
The key information is on page 34, which points out that it costs $1.70 to make a single 18650 LiIon cell. As each 18650 cell contains 9 Wh of energy, this is equivalent to
$190 per kilowatt-hour of battery storage.
Thus, the 9 kWh battery pack in the Edrive prius could cost as little as $1,700, once the battery costs come down to price of LiIon in a more established format. Beyond this, the prices of LiIon are falling every year (they are 1/10th the price they were in 1992 and that trend is continuing).
Why are there no mass-produced Lithium EVs in the Western auto market today? Each time there is a jump in technology it is the new companies that make the most of the opportunity, not the old established ones. Ford, GM etc have billions tied up in engine development, manufacture, supply chains etc so they aren't going to take the LiIon route. But the Chinese manufacturers don't have these millstones and do have access to plentiful cheap LiIon, so are heading in that direction.
You may laugh today about the prospects of LiIon in the auto market, but that's exactly what the people at Sony did when they saw the emergence of mp3 technology. Look how big a chunk of the music market Apple has now taken from nowhere. Once the technology is there, it's there and those who avoid it will simply miss the boat.
Re: To EV or not to EV that is the question
about $0.05/mi
about $0.09/mi
about $0.09/mi
$0.0219 / mile*
2/24/2008
