I agree that the US auto companies have been slow to change. But I disagree with the *Ford in particular* phrase.

Of the US auto companies, only Ford has a hybrid on the road. At the NAIAS, the other companies were bragging about their hybrids. Ford had the Escape and Mariner on display, but put their Flex Fuel Vehicles and Fuel Cell development up front. Only Ford has committed itself pubically to change its ways. (Whether it will do so or not remains to be seen, but the public commitment is more than what is coming from other US manufacturers.)

So I agree with you that the US Three (or should I say the US - Two-and-a-Half) have been slow to wake up. But I see Ford as at least trying to get into the swim while the others are still rubbing their eyes.

Incidently, I heard an interview in which a DaimlerChrysler spokesman was pooh-poohing Ford's innovation, stating that Chrysler was the innovative company. He cited the minivan as his example.

Yeah! Show me where DC has a hybrid on the road. DC is living in the past. The GM hybrid is more focused on performance than mileage - although it does a fair job of reducing emissions. But GM and DC have a longer road to hoe to catch Ford than Ford does to catch Honda and Toyota.

'06 FEH 2WD "Sainte Marie"

A point of clarification- my 'Ford in particular' comment was intended to indicate that they were the company currently under discussion in the thread, not that they were particularly worse than the other companies in the Big Three.

The FEH certainly has its fans on this forum, and I do not know very much about it, so I will say nothing negative aside from the fact that it is hard for me to get excited about it because it is still an SUV; I felt that if Ford were really going get started in another direction, then they should have started with something which is a bigger departure from their existing (arguably failed?) concepts.

leahbeatle,

Thanks for the clarification.

I suspect that Ford chose the Escape for its hybrid entry since it clearly was not a *failed vehicle.* It was the bestseller in its class. It satisfied reliability and customer satisfaction standards. And it did not compete in areas that were already pretty well staked out.

For the record, I do not consider the Escape (and Mariner) to be SUV's. Ford does call them that - but I think only because they wanted to compete in that market. My state (Michigan) lisences my FEH as a station wagon. My insurance company calls it a truck, and the Detroit Free Press refers to it as a crossover utility vehicle.

I also agree that we all have different preferences when it comes to selecting hybrids. I respect your choice and have no doubt it was right for you. One of the things I like about this forum is that most of us seem to have more loyalty to the alternative propulsion systems concept than to brands.

I needed room - both for myself and passengers, and for cargo. I drove a Ranger for sixteen years to satisfy those needs - quite good FE before the days of any hybrids. Of the hybrids, only Escape (and now Mariner, HiHy, and Lexus 400h) do this. Without those considerations, I could see myself getting a Prius or HCH.

'06 FEH 2WD "Sainte Marie"

While I completely agree that, if you're going to make SUVs or any comparable vehicles, whatever you call them (crossover utility vehicles sounds as good as any other name), you should make them hybrids, my point was more about the direction of American car manufacturing. I do not doubt that there are people who need and use SUVs, who have business or personal considerations that make all that space necessary, useful and desirable in a car. I think a station wagon can be a really good thing for a family with a few children, for instance.

However, I think that one reason there are so many commuters on the roads now with ridiculously big SUVs is because of what has been on offer in the dealerships in this country, not some actual need for the product. It's cyclical, sure- the companies make what we want and then sell us ads so that we want what they make. But if you compare the size of cars in this country to other countries- where they often have more children per family by the way-, the difference is striking. They have more expensive gas, and smaller cars- so they consume less than we do. If we want to consume less gas, we too should have more expensive gas and smaller cars (although having more expensive gas would probably cause people to buy smaller cars, on the whole, so there's positive feedback in the economic system).

It seems to me that if Ford or another Big Three company is really trying to make a statement about a change in direction, they should have made a mini instead of a mega. Others have certainly made the case against SUVs before me and more eloquently. I just wanted to make the point that my frustration stems from their product offering, and FEH notwithstanding, the Big Three didn't/don't offer the right products for this country as a whole, even if some of their products are the right choices for some of us individually. Why not hold them responsible for thinking about the future of the industry and its effect on us all? How else will anything change?

I agree with this sentiment entirely.

One of the things that impressed me at the NAIAS was Ford's emphasis on vehicles such as the Fusion - flex fueled and fuel celled versions included - and the Reflex.

GM had a hybrid (so-called) big pickup on display. DC - well, DC is DC.

You might be interested in persuing the threads on the *Dearborn Experence* (aka the *Ford Escape Experience*). The Ford Developement Team invited FEH owners to come for information exchange. I think they listened to us - we certainly listened to them.

I mention this since I suspect that they are the ones who are trying to reorient Ford in the directions you (and I) would like to see. I hope that those of us there gave them some additional ammunition for their efforts.

My grandmother told me that one could capture more flies with honey than with vinegar. I like to think that is what some of us are trying to do. We vote with our pocketbook to tell manufacturers that there is a market for hybrids and other alternative vehicles. (I never did understand why she wanted all those flies!)

'06 FEH 2WD "Sainte Marie"

ABOUT DC:

you know what in my opinion possibly is going to happen,

cerberus (corporate raider) was buying 80 % of chrysler,

20 % are still with daimler-benz

im sure cerberus is not going to make a fast turnover,

mercedes will go to realize that and sell it's 20 % to a foreign (maybe asian, maybe chinese) make.

or the way around, cerberus realizes there is nothing more to do,
flips it over and sells directly to a foreign brand shown above....

the question is...

they will manufacture in china, mexico, us??


=> maybe we get small, fuel efficent and well priced hybrids faster than expected.


open for opinions about that interesting tendence

FLORIAN

euro website about consumption

I know the Taurus was not a compact, but it was a mid-size and popular car which was aerodynamic for the time. They should have supported it and made it a hybrid. If they had they might be competing with the prius right now. I don't think they are so smart.


--des

My understanding was that the Taurus was ditched to make room for the Five Hundred platform - and after a year or so off the market the Five Hundred was essentially re-badged to the Taurus. Perhaps after making that realignment they'll look at making hybrid.

The thing is that desire for things is created. What do you need, a car to get you something safely. You might need a little more room for kids or something. What they did is create a need for a gas guzzling humungous vehicle. They didn't, for the most part, advertise it as carrying your family (there are some exceptions). They show the car out on some mesa somewhere, in the forest, etc. etc. having a good time (well the people not the car). They make people think that once they get this SUV that they will have all sorts of fun and adventure. I know a single guy with a Yukon. My neighbor is single and has an Explorer. I know the guy who never goes on any trip in the Yukon. I wish these were exceptions. Mostly people are getting them, driving them their usual drives, etc. There are loads of single people getting them. I think that 90% of people don't really have much use for them, and the people that could use a minivan, SUV, etc. don't usually need such a big one.

I think some of the initial interest by car companies, btw, was to get around safety requirements in cars. Initially these did could meet safety requirements of light trucks, which were looser. It's which is interesting as some people justify the SUV because of its size.

I've noticed the deals that dealerships are offering right now-- year's worth of gas, cheap financing, etc. I'm sure they make them more attractive.

I think many people are seeing the light on them, but it is kind of too late for the big 3.

--des