Delta

A person other than I. Corvair in the drive. If GM put 1/10th of the thought into BAS/Hybrid as they did the Corvair. Honda and Yota would be worried.

Martin, I am quite impressed at your deep and quite evidently- insightful knowledge concerning GM.

But, could it be that what happened during the 70's, 80's and 90's is a trend that at least GM will not be able to alter? Let's see, I remember executives for the big three including many GM PR people publicly stating that they "were turning a corner" and very soon matching the Japanese in quality and reliability.

If I vaguely recall, the Japanese (Honda & Toyota at least) made their presence known in the small car arena in the 70's and very soon percolated relentelessly to the top to become class benchmark products in many areas (with undisputible technical merit - Imight add). More recently as an example, Honda managed to raise a few eyebrows with their Ridgeline truck (not a hard-core truck but still one heck of an achivement for a first try) - Motor Trend award as well as a few others.

Now my question is this, what can possibly validate your statements (bolded above) that can help change our perception that a tide change in GM's favor will ever take place?

Also, could you tell me when did GM make the best cars in the world? What are they and when were they produced? How can GM even convince the average folk that it is an attainable goal when even Hyundai (quality bottom-feeder of the 80's and 90's) easily appears to eclipse GM in their speedy commitment to improve quality and reliability?

Please convenice me that car hybrid technology and GM are not mutuallly exclusive. No, Really: When can I buy a GM hybrid sedan that exceeds Toyota and Honda in engineering prowess, quality and fuel economy?


Regards;

MS

"When can I buy a GM hybrid sedan that exceeds Toyota and Honda in engineering prowess, quality and fuel economy? "

Seems like it's always just next year...

The Prius is the benchmark. GM HAS to better it...otherwise, what's the point? GM hybrid as a phrase even sounds cheesy...and THAT's a difficult row to hoe.

I say build me a great Prius-killer car and that image is solved. Until, then...buy gas for all your customers.

Cheers,

Curt.

'04 Seaside Pearl #7. Fumoto oil drain, mudflaps, rear bumper scuff protector & rear warn system, compass mirror, EV mode button, 8" subwoofer in right rear cubby & 6" subs under seats, power lumbar in the front seats, Coastaletech hitch w/ Aspen bike/snowboard rack. iPod2car, 2 amps, Alpine component speakers, and DVD video, solid 47 MPG @ 70000 miles.

GM building a "Prius killer" really a Prius matcher could happen pretty soon.GM is bring in a replacement for one of the Saturns(the Ion I think).The replacement is an Opel hatchback that is a huge seller in Europe-apparently it outsells the Ford Focus(a well regarded car in Europe) and is the biggest seller in its class-165" long hatchback.This car will be important because it is offered with ~10 or more motor/trans options.A couple of these options are high mpg TDIs.Once the NOX problem is solved GM will be able to plug a high quality TDI right into this vehicle.It is roughly between the Prius and Fit in size.
GM has several of these "Prius matchers" of various sizes in production already.The Corsa(roughly Yaris sized), the Saturn(OPEL) I mentioned,AND THE Zafira( a stubby 8 passenger TDI minivan-nothing like it in the USA, but it could be the "road trip" vehicle of the future once folks decide they don't want to drive 22 mpg (hy)12mpg( city) minivans with $4 gasoline.It will get better than double normal minivan mpg.
GM's Euro and Asian brands aren't the tiny small volume producers I -and most others-generally think of them as.They also have significant engineering experience and resources. GM competes very well on the level playing fields of Europe and Asia(not as well).The Duramax Diesels come from Isuzu.Isuzu is a HUGE producer of modern big and small diesels.Their little 60 hp diesel pickup was a decent seller here in the 80's.A buddy of mine had one-1987 model.He got 400,000 miles out of it before it was totaled in a wreck.This is quite an accomplishment-many of the products of that era were BIG RUSTERS.He was in Louisiana-no salt-.It got an honest 38+ mpg hy and 30 mpg city.
GM's problems are pretty much limited to the USA,and they have a simple origin-labor costs that are tough to lower because of UAW contracts.GM is being slowly driven "offshore".It is working to lower labor costs, but the UAW is in a tough spot also.You really can't expect a union to allow labor costs to suddenly drop to 65% of current on the hopes of saving jobs 15 years from now for workers who are 10-15 years from being dues paying members. It is a tough problem.Luck,Charlie

I too, see the Prius AND the Civic Hybrid as the current technological benchmarks that GM MUST beat in order to regain the credibility we're talking about. The Prius is not the only benchmark because at least in Canada it costs 15% more than a 2006 Civic Hybrid, yet despite its sophistication it does not deliver 15% more fuel economy than the Civic's exercise in optimal simplicity. I would be happy if GM could prove they can trump at least one of these.

I've owned Opels and I don't regard them as competition for Honda and Toyota (at least on some of the criteria I outlined above (Quality, Reliability, and fuel economy). Sorry, only the old Morris and some FIAT models give me more nighmares than the Opels I owned.

It is not hard to belive that most automakers have their own skunkworks producing (or at least claiming to produce) wonder prototypes. I don't doubt GM has much invested in this as it would be reckless not to. But, if for whatever reason (labour is not the major excuse) they do not execute and deliver a product capable of challenging Honda and Toyota products, then all the claims GM makes only amount to the stuff their suits have been promising and delivering over the last 20 years.



Regards;

MS

You often bring up the Zafira as an example of how GM will be able to compete once the sulfer issue is solved in our diesel fuel. I believe the Toyot Verso and others are similar? Keep in mind that this will allow other automakers to bring their diesels over as well. Honda for one is said to have amazing diesel engines in Europe...

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/05/...rg/sxhonda.php

If GM is using the existing Prius as their benchmark, they will fall far short once again.

I for one am looking forward to the selection of clean diesel autos we should see in 2-3 years available in the U.S. Let the diesel wars begin!