Fully funded means something different to you than it does to me. What you are saying is that GM is keeping up with the payments, correct? I'm saying there should be no payments because the retirements should have been funded from the cars that were sold while the retirees were still employed. All the money to support a retiree should already be in the bank the first day of retirement.

I agree, the money for an employees retirement should be in an untouchable account... like 401k. If it can be skimmed off as profits, the company has other issues.

Correct although if you had a 1 kW UPS unit, the Prius as an emergency generator could feed 1 kW AC to keep a battery sustained UPS running at say 850-900 W. depending upon the UPS efficiency. There are some issues with avoiding recharging inrush but we can talk about that another day.

That was how I started. We live in a neighborhood with 40-50 year old trees that have grown into the power lines. So any sort of wind storm and we see power outages. The first time, I used a 120 W. cigarette lighter inverter and we had some florscent lights and a laptop to stay at home. A month or so later, I found a 1 kW inverter at Costco for $49 and rigged it up to run off of my wife's Echo, 90 A. alternator. But the Echo alternator provides only 30-40 A. at idle. This was used during a Katrina outage to power lights, a fan and the TV, just barely. But the Prius 12 DC power comes from the inverter fed by the main traction battery. The Prius provides a full 1 kW, 65-70 A. without a problem and cycles the engine as needed to maintain traction battery charge.

It is also very quiet and the 11 gallon tank gives me over 40 hours of continous running at 1 kW. Longer at partial power. It is also a lot easier (and safer) to put gas in the Prius tank than a smaller generator.

It is good for 1 kW year round but the fuel consumption is likly to vary. The Prius radiator fans may need to run longer in the hot summer and in the winter, there may be other thermal losses that cause higher fuel consumption. As long as the trunk lid is open and the inverter where it can radiate heat, the system runs quite nicely. Just be sure to set the parking brake so the daylight running head lights will be off and minimize other loads (i.e., no need for cabin AC or heating.)

Here in Huntsville, my biggest worry are ice storms. They tend to be the longest power outages and associated with cold temperatures. Our Prius provides enough power to operate the gas furnace fan and that means heat. With a few lights, we're ready to handle the storm.

The 1 kW inverter has a 1.2 kW surge. I've seen more recent versions with higher surge and better instrumentation display. It is really helpful to have an overload alarm and load indicator. This lets you manage the load to keep everything in sustainable operational ranges.

BTW, the Prius 12 VDC power from the inverter appears to be limited to 1 kW total. What that means is even if I put a larger inverter in, the Prius drops the volage at current draws above 65 A. and you still don't get more than 1 kW.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

My definition of "Fully Funded" is based on how the financial community rates companies' adherence to requirements to fund pension plans. I'm not smart enough in this area to know if that means that everyone's pension is in a "locked box" (to borrow a phrase). I do know that to the standards set by Wall Street analysts, GM's US Employee Pension Plans are fully funded, which puts it in the minority for companies doing business in the US.

Peace,

Martin

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

Bob, thanks. Glad I learned about this. We haven't used the generator yet, because once we do it will have to be stored outside(gasoline odor,flammable etc-points you touch on-easier to store fuel in a car). Thanks.Charlie

"Fully funded" most certainly does not mean "in a locked box". I'm not a pension actuary (and have no desire to be one, I like property & casualty ), so I'll let wikipedia do the first part of the work here So, "fully funded" means that the plan sponsor (GM in this case) has made enough contributions that, after applying investment return assumptions and mortality assumptions, will cover all future payment obligations.

Ok if this is true then someone is not telling the whole truth.

Martinjlm claims that GM's funds are "fully funded" meaning they are not a burden on current employees. Lets see where is it? Here it is: But earlier someone said: You can't have it both ways, either that or Wiki is wrong.

Lakedude, they could both be right, if the actuary guessed wrong 25 years ago, and "bet" -medical costs would only rise at the rate they had been rising, then the fund would have been "fully funded" at the time, but it would now require an injection of current workers money.
Martinjlm didn't say"they are not a burden on current employees" you said that. He said-in effect-that the plan was fully funded at the time according to the best guess of the actuary who did the "guessing".
This could be part of GMs problem-a problem Toyota doesn't have, or doesn't have much of since they have very few retired USA employees.
GM might have fully funded the fund at the time-according to a "best guess" of medical costs. It almost certainly would have been an underestimation of medical costs since medical cost increases have continued to exceed expectations.

They can both be correct.
Fully Funded doesn't mean they aren't a burden on current employees.It means-probably-that it wasn't meant to be a burden on current employees.
Luck,Charlie
PS Healthcare costs might do what Hillary couldn't-get universal healthcare.

Both can be true at the same time. Howzat?

Pension
The number of retirees varies every year. Some retirees die. Some active employees decide to retire. This causes mild fluctuations in what is required, from an actuarial perspective, to support the pension fund.

The number of active employees varies every year. Some leave the company. Some are replaced, others are not. Some retire and move from active rolls to retirement rolls. Remember, the pension projections are to take into account "future retirees", ie active employees.

So every year the amount required to fulfill the financial or actuarial definition of "fully funded" changes. Any "deposits" to the reserves are funded from where? Profits from sales of product produced by active employees.

Support of Retirees
Support of retirees includes benefits beyond pension. The obvious and largest expense is, of course, Health Care. On an only slightly humorous note, the single largest purchaser of Viagra is the GM Retiree Prescription Plan. That useless fact is an indicator of the size of the issue. How many other prescription drugs fall into that category?

Peace,

Martin

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

Ok thanks for the info...

Man I thought I posted the thankyou a couple days ago... Must have forgot to hit "post"