I was just checking out the specs for the 07 Camry Hybrid: http://www.toyota.com/camry/models_hybrid.html

Specs are here: http://www.toyota.com/images/vehicle...amry/specs.pdf

I'm really impressed. They're using the smaller of the two available engines (2.4l vs. 3.5l) and has 11 fewer hp than the non-hybrid 2.4l equivalents (but still rated at a decent 147hp). Says the net hybrid hp is 187. CVT, and 40/38 EPA mileage. Price is $25,900.

Excellent price point, great mileage for a car that size, some hp to boot. This really ought to lure a lot of would-be Civic buyers. I smell a winner.

*** Retired after 65,000 outstanding miles ***

preaching to the choir!

Any speculation on what the real MPG numbers will end up being? Will they be any closer to the EPA values, or will they be off by roughly the same as the Prius and Highlander?

Prius ....... EPA=55, GH=48
Highlander .. EPA=30, GH=26

Camry ....... EPA=39, GH=34?

Or is there a chance that perhaps the real-world numbers will be closer to the EPA for this new 2007 vehicle?

Not without hypermiling techniques. No car gets the EPA estimates, in real-world driving.

HM techniques not required. Driving sanely and at the posted speeds while avoiding 'binary driving' (foot always on one of the pedals) will do the trick for a large portion of the population. I beat highway EPA every day even in the winter with no drafting, no FAS, no overkill air in the tires, no super-thin oil, etc. Just cruise control at 60-65 and take my foot off the gas early when I know there's a stop or slowdown ahead. Lots of drivers can attest to the same.

My old 2k1 Civic did.

I find that in mostly flat areas, this is definitely true in my Civic. However, with my commute (lots of hills... the one I live on alone costs me 10% of my potential mileage), it's just not possible to exceed EPA without using every imaginiable hypermiling techique. A great many peopel live in such places where it's just not reasonable to expect getting EPA mileage, even with a laid back driving style.

Actually, I usually got right around EPA in my non-IMA Hondas. My '01 Accord got 23-24 (was rated 20/28) in Chicago metro traffic (think: congested expressways and heavy urban traffic). I moved to a suburban area the last year and a half I had the car - mileage went from 22-23 to 24-25.

I started here because my first tank in the Accord Hybrid was so bad (26-something, IIRC), and wanted to know what I was doing 'wrong'. That car could not be FAS'd, and I did not use extreme drafting techniques. P&G wasn't known to anyone here (except for Kroushl - sp?), so I didn't use that, either.

With the Civic I have now, I still don't FAS the car (also becuase of its tranny), and I don't use P&G - I'm saving that for when fuel supplies get pinched. So I'm not using 'extreme' hypermiling techniques. I also don't draft much at all, because I generally don't drive on the interstate w/ this car.

So what I'm saying is... gonavy's right. The attentive driver can do a lot toward achieving EPA in their car - just avoiding jackrabbit starts can return a good 20-30% increase, as becoming motive from rest is the primary FE killer of an ICE. I didn't coast a lot in the prior non-IMA Hondas (although I did have 'common sense' to lift my foot up when I saw an unavoidable red light up ahead, or try and time it a bit). I was fairly ignorant in those days, and still got EPA or close to it.

The efficiency of the manufacturer's ICE has something to do with what you'll get as well. Some are engineered for FE a bit better than others

Hills do have an effect, I'll acknowledge that. But driving with load can help with that - a lot.

Mark

Sometimes we could all use a little less

My hybrid automobiles:

Current:
2006 Honda Civic Hybrid (CVT, w/o Nav)
Magnetic Pearl / Blue - 008661, born 12/28/05
Mods: Neck pillows, Garmin C330 Nav, Draw-tite 1.25" hitch (for bikes, not towing!), Pioneer Inno XM receiver via Aux jack, OEM mud flaps, more to come!

Hypermiler status on 3/12/06 @ 3077mi.

Previous:
2005 Honda Accord Hybrid (5AT/Navi)
Desert Mist / Ivory - 001254
Retired 1/21/06 - LMPG 34.1

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I dunno, I got my '04 HCH1 new for 21k. What are the 06 HCH going for? Maybe it's suppose to lure the Accord hybrid drivers?

I tend to think the Echo is comperable to the Civic, and the Camry to the Accord. Is that correct? Any opinions?

--A

The Echo is a 1500 cc vehicle that sits high. I think the Corolla would be a better match for the Civic . . . low and plenty of power.

As for Camry vs. Accord, I've never been in an Accord and the last Camry was a '91 model.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
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