Who says the Prius is the champ? The Insight is the oldest car of the bunch and the mileage king by a large margin (MT). The gen 1 Civic hybrid beats the Prius in mileage according to our database. Who crowned Prius king?

I guess it all depends on what you need out of your car. If you drive mostly in low speed, stop & go traffic, then the Prius is king. If your a Lord of the Highway, then a Civic is better. Personally, I've got nearly 100,000 miles on my 2003 Civic Hybrid and it's been awesome all the way!

Regarding the NAV question,

What i did in my situation is that i bought a 3rd party unit; it's called a garmin 2720 about 2 years ago you can research about it at http://www.garmin.com/products/sp2720/

I found this to be better because:

1. you can take it out of the car and bring it inside (hotel, home) to plot your trips.
2. if you decide to take it to another car you can do that too.
3. it's not a DVD based NAV unit, it's got a built in hard drive so that means
it loads faster and can be updated via USB through your computer.
4. it costs significantly less, i bought mine 2 years ago for $1300CND including tax.
5. when you finally decide to get rid of the car few years down, you dont have to get rid of the nav unit which you paid $3K for.

If you decide to get a prius, there is a nice spot where the garmin unit can sit, it's on the left side behind the steering wheel opposite of the middle console on the flat surface; no glueing required, the unit comes with a bean bag stand which prevents it from moving around even on bumpy roads. You can plot your trip first inside your home or hotel and then place it into your car, there it starts up automatically and it gives you directions from there. The good thing about it is that it mentions the street names like this " in 200 Meters, make a right on Bloor st." and not " in 200 meters make a right" you can change the voice to female, male, british female, german female, etc.. whichever you prefer.

If you're interested, I think there are new units now, i think the latest is called a Garmin 7200, it's got a 7" touch screen loaded with satelite radio and extra space in the hard drive for MP3s, etc....

http://www.garmin.com/products/sp7200/


Ultimately it's up to you, I chose the 3rd party because NAV untis are not cheap, I own two cars and i drive both to different places. Having one unit helps me a lot; also, when i'm sitting inside my hotel, i dont need to worry about going down to the basement garage to plot out points of interests for the next day. i can do it all inside the room and program it in the unit.
I think this unit has about 6 million points of interest programmed by the manufacturer for all of north america: canada, USa, and mexico.


I know you're debating over which car to get,
i would say test drive both and see which you like.
buying a car, to most people, can be a very personal thing.
i personally went for a prius because when i go for long trips my
fiance likes to bring her whole warddrobe and bunch of other "useless" things, and i found that we always end up bringing 3 large size luggages. Those all fit easily in the back of the prius. Finally, some people dont want to be seen in a hybrid and want to "blend in" but still buy a hybrid. Nothing wrong with that. But for me i just spent $37000 dollars (yes I save up to buy it cash but was worth it) and i am proud of my new car I want everyone to see it. Nothing wrong with that either.

anyway good luck, let us know what your decision is in the future.

I'll go ahead and say the Prius is good for ALL driving.

On the highway it is ALWAYS, persistently keeping the battery charged AND assisting the gas engine, sometimes going into 'stealth' at 60 miles per hour (gas engine spins, no fuel gets burned). It has passing power when needed, but has frugalness with a light foot. VERY smooth acceleration.

City driving is quiet when in EV mode (below 44 miles per hour with the right conditions). Typically I can go all EV below 30 MPH in residential areas. The A/C is electric, no belts or engine required...directly. Indirectly the gas engine can run the generator AND the bigger electric motor to move you, or use the battery pack to do BOTH. Amazingly complex, yet simple is what I say.

Plus I've driven the 06 Civic Hybrid and it is not as smooth as the HSD PRius. My opinion, of course.

Plus, ulility. C'mon Honda! I can haul a full-size wheelbarrow, big square boxes, 8' lumber, what ever I need to. The HCH has no folding seats. I love the utility in my EUV (environmental utility vehicle).

I think the Prius has many more options that are simply NOT available at all on the HCH: Smart-key, vehicle stability control, bluetooth...if u opt to 'need' them.

Hands-down, Prius. Plus the plug-in Lithium version in '09. That will be something.

'04 Seaside Pearl #7. Fumoto oil drain, mudflaps, rear bumper scuff protector & rear warn system, compass mirror, EV mode button, 8" subwoofer in right rear cubby & 6" subs under seats, power lumbar in the front seats, Coastaletech hitch w/ Aspen bike/snowboard rack. iPod2car, 2 amps, Alpine component speakers, and DVD video, solid 47 MPG @ 70000 miles.

Yes i did forget to mention, when i test drove the HCH
the salesman couldnt say anything when i told him i need to haul *** when i go on vacation: the REAR Seats doesnt fold down Every single car I see out there, the manufacturer always EMPHASIZE Space and interior room. Look at the Cheapest/Smallest car they have: The HONDA FIT. How much more can Honda Emphasize Luggage Space and interior Room; they can Fit a BIKE inside that thing and still have room in the back for cabinet and stereo system !
he told me that the batteries were built there and it made it impossible to put the seats down.

but overall, the car was excellent and nice to drive, but i still prefer the Prius.

Now about price, here in canada, it's $5,000 more. No wonder people are reluctant to buy the prius over the HCHII
BUT, If you are not going to be changing cars often, I say spend the extra bucks and get a prius, compartment space is really essential; i have learned the hard way: driving around in a BMW coupe is nice, it's roughly the same size as the new civic, but on one occassion when i went to the furniture store for a computer desk, i had to hassle my parents to borrowing their van for something that would fit in my sister's honda civic hatchback. You'll never know when you're going to need it. Spending this kind of money should at least get you something that can do at least that.

it really all does come down to your own taste and priorities. i was ready to buy a prius but since the waiting list of so long, ended up going to the honda dealer. didn't even know about the hchii. i test drove it and drove a brand new one out of the show room. i was convinced for a couple reasons:

1) i liked the styling of the hch. it does look very bmw but it also doesn't look like a space pod. some people like the looks of the prius. some like the looks of the civic. personal taste.

2) i really like the interior design of the civic over the prius. i do not prefer the swoopy dash in the prius with no center console. i love the gauge design on the civic. very well planned and thought out. again these are personal tastes.

3) i wish the civic had at least fold down rear seats but at the end of the day, i've never really needed that so it wasn't a purchase decision for me.

4) safety. the civic has a 5 star safety rating. the frame is newly designed by honda to allow for multiple head-on collision types (read: suv and normal cars) with different energy absorbing paths. this was a big deal for me since in the bay area there are just too many humongous suvs barreling down the highway. plus, the civic has active head restraints and full length side curtain airbags standard.

5) gas mileage. i test drove multiple prius and civics and the real world mpg ratings were nearly identical. the database here helps to demonstrate that. at the end of the day, i prefer the simplicity of honda's ima system. being an engineer at heart if i can obtain the same results from two different system, i'll err on the side of the simpler system for obtaining them.

6) nav system. i love the voice activated nav system on the civic. this is the only available upgrade option and i like that too. the system is quite good at voice recognition and useful too. you can say "detour" while on a crowded freeway and it will automatically get you off the freeway and calculate surface streets avoiding the next two miles of freeway. just being able to find a parking garage when going into the city and not having to worry about it great. finally, i admit it, i'm a geek. when i pressed the open button on the nav screen and the screen's smooth and quiet servo motors flipped the screen outward to reveal the standard pc flash card for playing audio files i was sold! that was just too cool!

listen you can't go wrong with either car. both are excellent. both will help to greatly reduce harmful carbon emissions. both will save you ton in gas. and you'll really enjoy either one. test drive each one. make your list of priorities and then buy the one you like best. you won't be sorry either way!

cheers,
neil

This is completely impossible. The fancy display might show that the motor is assisting and charging but that is completely and totally not possible and therefore not a HSD advantage. What the display is reallly showing is the electrical power path with the exception of the mechanical drag put on the engine to produce the electrical power. The Prius can not function with a purely mechanical power path like a IMA based vehicle can. A Prius must route some of the power down the electrical path which is a disadvantage not an advantage.

Don't get me wrong the Prius is a fantastic piece of engineering (I'd love to have one) but it isn't magic. A motor can not produce power from thin air. If a motor is not getting power from the battery it must be coming from somewhere else.

I think what he meant was that the prius engages the electric motor to assist to maintain speed, then when the computer reaches the desired/set speed , the electric motor switches back to a generator to recharge the battery.

That's what happens in my case btw with my 06 prius, I set the cruise control at 110km/hr in the highway the computer automatically tries to maintain that speed running the ICE alone and charging the battery; however, the computer is also very sensitive to every tilt and wind resistance: when it senses that the car needs more power to counteract wind speed or an uphill, it programs the electric motor to generate power to assist the ICE to help it maintain the cruise speed; then it reverts the electric motor back to a generator to recharge the battery and starts the process all over again if it encounters another resistance.
very nice piece of hardware

hopefully the next generation prius will be cheaper and at least 2x better.

Here here!
We'll likely be in the market within 5 years or so and am really exited about it.
Since I already have the HCH-I perhaps we'll try the Prius.

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT

Maybe my explanation was not clear. The Prius has TWO electric motors, thus it can do more things than a one-motor system.

Yeah, that was clear...NOT.
Anyway, let's see. How 'bout this: The Prius gas engine does indeed split it's power between the wheels and BOTH electric motors (all thru the planetary gear, power-split device). What this means is that many combinations of power can be happening, depending on your right foot. Every efficiency moment is taken into account.

There are times when the gas engine is turning the generator, which is then turning the big motor, completely not using any battery (series hybrid). At the same time it is also turning the wheels via the power-split device.

At times the gas engine is turning the wheels alone via the power-split device AND turning the generator to charge the battery, thus not using the big motor at all to help turn the wheels.

At times EVERYTHING is sent to the turning wheels: gas engine turning generator to power the big motor PLUS gas engine going to wheels PLUS battery sending it's help to power the big motor (parallel hybrid).

It's a complex but amazing system. IMHO, moreso than IMA. Just my opinion. I think it's cool that the power paths are many and varied to eek out all the efficiency.

'04 Seaside Pearl #7. Fumoto oil drain, mudflaps, rear bumper scuff protector & rear warn system, compass mirror, EV mode button, 8" subwoofer in right rear cubby & 6" subs under seats, power lumbar in the front seats, Coastaletech hitch w/ Aspen bike/snowboard rack. iPod2car, 2 amps, Alpine component speakers, and DVD video, solid 47 MPG @ 70000 miles.