Good comparison of Honda vs Toyota? - Page 3 - GreenHybrid

bwilson4web · #21 (**permalink**) 04-30-2006, 08:46 AM

Hi Mike,

Mostly I agree with one minor clarification.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double-Trinity

Neither. The stop and go advanatage has to do with the fact that at slower speeds the engine doesn't need to spin over hardly at all, whereas it must run at idle most of the time in stop and go traffic in the case of the Honda. The Prius tranmission is basically a single fixed-gear ratio, which uses a differential to split engine power between the wheels, and a generator. When it needs more torque in lower gears, more of the power is diverted toward the generator, which then spins a second high-torque electric motor on the driven end of the transmission.

The Prius II "spins a second high-torque electric motor", 67 hp, from the energy stored in the battery. The Civic II uses a 20 hp motor. These are the motors handling regenerative braking.
http://automobiles.honda.com/models/...e=Civic+Hybrid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double-Trinity

The drawback of the Toyota system is that at highway speeds, this method must be run in reverse, to "gear up" the car, meaning that the system continually wastes some energy at highway speeds by converting mechanical power to electrical power, then back.

The Honda system however uses normal geared (or belt-and-pulley) transmissions, so it wastes less engine power at highway speeds in the transmission. However, it wastes more at slower speeds.

LoudMusic · #22 (**permalink**) 06-12-2006, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidgrenier

Boy howdy are you askin' for it. That seems to be one of those topics that quickly devolves into an Apple vs. Windows style "holy war."

Being one that cares more about "Apple vs Windows" than Honda vs Toyota I have to point out that you're not comparing the correct things with your example. Apple is a company who's product is OS X. Microsoft is a company who's product is Windows. I believe what you intended to referance was "Apple vs Microsoft" or "OS X vs Windows".

Aussie · #23 (**permalink**) 06-14-2006, 05:01 PM

Could I be so bold as to summerise the preceeding comments...

The Honda Civic II is cheaper, smaller and (I believe) just as FE as the Prius on long trips.

The Toyota Prius is more expensive, larger and better suited and more FE in stop-go city driving.

So...it comes down to two things.

1/ Your expected driving - mainly city or mainly highway

2/ How much room you need.

I'm a sales rep with lots of freeway driving and some heavy city traffic. I needed driveability (nippy)and good economy on long drives, so I decided on the Honda.

...and...I didn't want to make an "in-your-face" comment about being a Hybrid driver. The Honda is very subtle in that regard.

I'm surprised at one of the posting's that said the Prius was quicker off the mark. The Honda is no slouch when pushed, and I'm no petrol head so 1.5 seconds didn't mean much to me.

At the end of the day they are both great FE cars.

I don't include anything with a V6 ICE as a "real" hybrid. I believe that a "real" hybrid is for "real" Fuel Efficiency and pollution reduction. 35mpg is not really FE...50mpg is!

No offence intended to those that have just purchased a Lexus "Hybrid" or similar.

Thanks

bwilson4web · #24 (**permalink**) 06-15-2006, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aussie

. . .The Honda Civic II is cheaper, smaller and (I believe) just as FE as the Prius on long trips.

The Toyota Prius is more expensive, larger and better suited and more FE in stop-go city driving.

So...it comes down to two things.

1/ Your expected driving - mainly city or mainly highway

2/ How much room you need.
. . .

There is a 3d option IF your primary requirement is just highway driving, diesel with a manual transmission. They don't match urban driving but they do just fine cruising down the highway. I don't know their 'price /performance' numbers but some of the diesel advocates talk about them as if they are all but free, look fine and run a long time . . . unlike what they perceive as horribly complex, unreliable and expensive hybrid electrics. <GRINS>

Bob Wilson

philmcneal · #25 (**permalink**) 06-15-2006, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

There is a 3d option IF your primary requirement is just highway driving, diesel with a manual transmission. They don't match urban driving but they do just fine cruising down the highway. I don't know their 'price /performance' numbers but some of the diesel advocates talk about them as if they are all but free, look fine and run a long time . . . unlike what they perceive as horribly complex, unreliable and expensive hybrid electrics. <GRINS>

Bob Wilson

http://drivingtelevision.ca/segmentv...all=&segtitle=

surprisingly the diesel (40.6 usMPG) showed up right behind the prius (45.2 usMPG). Not bad at all, I remember reading about a guy who left his diesel truck idling until it ran out of gas, 3 months later the diesel engine finally stalled!

Diesel is good competition too, but I'm glad the emissions laws are getting tougher, that thing is indeed dirty

phoebeisis · #26 (**permalink**) 06-15-2006, 05:07 PM

Phil- the Jetta TDI manual trans isn't even close; it is using 31% more fuel!
The numbers I read were 5.2L/100 KM VS 6.8 L/100KM-
I think this would be 5.2x1.057/4=1.37 gallons 100KM=62 MILES 62/1.37=45.3 MPG
and 6.8 x1.057/4= 1.8gallons 62/1.8= 34.4 mpg
I pretty sure 6.6L/100 KM= 34.4 MPG.
The Jetta TDI goes down for another humiliating defeat at the hands of the Puny (76hp) Prius! Clatter-Clatter!!
Thanks,Charlie