"Dealer Invoice" is the price a dealer would pay if they were only able to sell one of these vehicles. Dealers get a volume discount from the manufacturer _and_ the discount is retroactive.

If they sold very low volume then they'd actually pay dealer invoice on each unit. Most dealers tend to pay a few percent below dealer invoice because of their volumes. Your dealer probably made a few on your car that was sold at $500 "below dealer invoice".

Regards,
Tim

Yes, I have to say, they are simply two different vehicles. Looks, interior, and "driving feel" are subjective, so you should definitely test drive them both, but the main differences:

1. FE: Escape will get about 5-7 more mpg than the HH. It's a smaller-car, smaller-engine design. It's one class up in the fuel economy game.

2. POWER: HH has much more power, much bigger engine, much better performance. Escape is plenty fast for an occassional fast acceleration, but if you want great performance, or drive in power-hungry environments (hard mountain driving, etc), the difference between the two will be large. Floor them both uphill and you'll see.

3. SIZE: HH is rated one size bigger. I'm not sure how much more space there actually is, but you can squeeze in up to 7 people in it. So there's a real advantage is space, although escape is not small, so do you need MORE room than escape already has?

4. OFF-ROAD: People say different things, but both these SUVs use the same type of drivetrain, with the same basic capabilities/limitations. They're both capable 4wd vehicles with decent clearance, neither one of them has hard-core off-road drivetrains. Unless proven otherwise, they're the same.

5. PRICE! Out the door, HH will cost you $10,000 more. A little less if you get no options. You do get more equipment in general, but difference in price is HUGE. Again, you get more (except FE), but you pay a lot more, too.

So, if you're trying to lead the hybrid lifestyle while still having a capable, roomy vehicle and price matters, Escape is the clear choice. If you only care about decent FE and you want more power/room/equipment/toyotaness AND price doesn't matter, then HH is the clear choice.

While the rest of your post is pretty accurate, this is simply not true as I posted in the other thread here:
http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/155013-post20.html

The 4wd systems on the two vehicles are totally different. The Ford 4wd system is mechanical. That means that there is a transfercase that takes power from the engine and electric motor and turns the front AND rear wheels. The Toyota system has NO transfercase. The Highlander Hybrid has no mechanical connection to the rear wheels. Instead, it has an additional electric motor for the rear wheels. That means that the rear wheels are limited in the amount of power they can get. Only the front wheels get power from the engine. The problem with this system is that if your front wheels are without power, your rear wheels may not have the power to free your vehicle. The advantage of Toyota's system is that ONROAD they do have stability control whereas Ford still does not offer VSC on their hybrid.

There is also a "flaw" in the Ford system, which may also impact the HiHy though I am not sure...and that is power in reverse. The CVT transmission in the Ford has no reverse gear. 100% of the power for reverse comes from the electric motors. If you put an FEH in reverse and place the back wheels against a curb, you will not be able to back over the curb. The motors don't have the power to move the vehicle, and the system has been programmed to shut down to protect itself if the wheels do not move.

All that said, there is no hybrid with a real low range. I think the FEH is closer to being off-road capable and the company even states it is as capable as the standard escape. Toyota explicitly states that the Highlander is not to be taken offroad.

-Tim

2006 Mercury Mariner Hybrid AWD
Black with Pebble interior
Premium Package with Nav & Moonroof



Current ODO: 22,530
Typical Drive: 20 min crosstown in heavy traffic (3.5mi there and back twice a day)

Last three tanks: 26.09mpg
Best Tank: 31.7 mpg calc. (35.0 mpg Nav)
Best Trip: 37.1 mpg for 153.8 miles

457 Gallons of gas saved
That's 9,150 lbs less CO2

The two dumbest things I ever did with buying and selling cars is:1.I sold my highlander hybrid that I loved and miss. 2.I bought a ford pick-up f-250 that was the worst thing i ever owned...

How is the HiHy on Ice and Snow? Anyone ever get stuck?

I want to know how the traction control works on the HiHy?

I have heard that Prius people get upset because of getting stuck in ice and snow.


Oh wait, Found The Answer!


http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f...ght=snow+stuck

And here.

http://www.hybridchat.com/forums/toy...pect-vdim.html


Found this...


Oh my gawd! We finally got some snow in MN. I just found out that my wife's $36,000 Highlander Hybrid is 100% absolutely useless in powder snow. This thing will leave you stranded!!!! Do not buy one of these if you will ever need to drive off the pavement!!! I knew from reading the owner's manual that the Highlander Hybrid is not to be considered an off-road vehicle. And I used to be OK with that, that's why I have a Chevy Silverado 4WD and it's awesome in deep snow. But this weekend I pulled that Highlander Hybrid into a parking lot that had about 8" of medium-weight snow (not fluffy, but not slushy either, good snowball making snow). And the vehicle instantly came to a complete stop!! Stepping on the gas pedal had NO EFFECT. The engine will not rev up, no power is applied to the wheels, and it just sits there like a freaking boat anchor!! What a horrible piece of crap!! This vehicle will leave you stranded if you ever try to drive in anything that will cause wheel slippage such as medium depth snow, loose sand, gravel, etc. In such a situation small 2WD drive cars would be able to keep going and you will be left stranded in your nearly $40,000 piece of Toyota crap!! I just called the service manager at the Toyota dealer and complained and she said "But it's unusual to drive one of these in 8" of snow". Bull crap! Our cul-de-sac often has that much snow in the event of one of our increasingly rare MN snowfalls.

Here

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh....php?p=2103131

And This ...

The Hybrid's problem is that it is equipped with a very fastidious (read "over-zealous") traction control set-up, and if the wheels are slipping a lot, particularly at low speed, as when crawling up a steep gravelly/rocky incline, the traction control system can apply the brakes to the point that the car will come to a complete halt. (This forced me to turn around on a narrow one-lane cliffside mountain road and make a 50-mile detour one day.) I suspect that this is somehow an effort to protect the electric motor system from over-revving. But it can, under the right circumstances, cause you a big headache. So far, it has not stranded me in a snow situation. Only that one gravel/rock/incline situation.



Never mind, I found my answer!

Oh, There will be a snow storm this weekend. Anyone want to play in the snow*



*FEH and MMH only!

I wouldn't put too much stock in some of those posts, as it seems most folks have very little problems with their HiHys in snow.

Denver was NASTY yesterday and the RX400h did great! Much better than most of the vehicles we encountered on the roads.