I agree!

I still find it hard to believe that no HiHy (or even 400h) people have weighed in. Maybe you should post a link over there to stir the pot up a little . I was poking around on that board a little last night and didn't find it too active. One thing that I found interesting though, was that people were complaining about the lack of Limited models vs. base models. That is 180 degrees from the way things were in Colorado Springs when the '08s first came out. If I could have gotten a base model for the advertised $34k I would have considered it a little harder, but in hindsight, I'm very glad we got the MMH.

Commuter car, grocery getter, and summer road tripper--average 10k miles per year.


Winter road trips and ski trips, bad weather commuter and my wife's "daily" driver--expected average 4k miles per year.

Sorry to late to the party. I own both an 07 FEH and an 07 Highlander Hybrid.

The Highlander can get nearly the same gas mileage in town as the FEH when you drive it like you have to drive the FEH to get great gas mileage.
i.e. coasting, working to get into ev, and so on. I get 32 on short trips (2.8)miles with either. I get 34 (FEH) and 30 (HiHY) on longer country trips like 14 miles or so.

The FEH has to be tickled, or tricked into dropping into ev. You either shift to L at just 40, then jump back to drive after you see the tack bounce once, or you do a double tap on the brake pedal to get it to shut down.

The HiHY just drops to ev when you take your foot out of it.

The FEH will go 38, 39 miles per hour in EV on a flat surface, in no wind, or on a slight downhill. When you exceed 40, even on a long downhill, the ice starts back up, wether connected to the drivetrain or not, i.e. it will start up while coasting in neutral.

The HiHy will go 43 or so against a wind, or on a slight uphill in Ev.
It will drop to ev on a good downhill on the freeway at freeway speeds.
Consequently, if you work it, you can get near to the same city milage as the FEH +-2 mpg....

On the highway on long trips (like Barstow to Tampa), the FEH will ask you to stay at 60 t0 63 to get the good mileage (34-36 if you are careful).
If you aren't in that sort of mood and are just banging along with the rest of the traffic at 75-85 or the like, you get 24-28 depending on temperature and such.


The HiHy won't get the high numbers on a light cruise, BUT you can drive it like you stole it (all day at 85-90 across the desert) and still pull 28 or so. I drove the HiHy from Petaluma to Providence by way of Eugene, Fort Collins, Colorado Springs, Indianapolis and like that, then back through Atlanta, down through New Mexico across route 66 last summer. 8500 miles. Averaged 28.5. Got passed maybe 3 times.

Compared to the HiHY, the FEH sounds tinny and buzzy at speed.
It accellerates slowly. The HiHy will turn a 15.1 quartermile (4wd) in stock form at sea level.

Having said that, I drive the FEH daily on in town trips and use the HiHY if I need to run down to San Jose, or perhaps LA. It's heavier, quieter, and yeah, it costs $10 grand more.... and my wife likes it better.

MM

This a great post and sums it up well. I did a comparison of the 07 FEH vs the 07 HiHy and my experience was similar. I would, however, like to point out some things that would be different for an 08-to-08 comparo.

First and most important for many is that there is no longer a FWD HiHy available.

Second, regarding the FEH/MMH feeling tinny and buzzy, this is true IMO only for the Gen 1. Concerns about road noise and ride were around since the Escape debuted in '02, and were why I didn't buy a hybrid one. But the 08 addresses this to the point where it's almost a non-issue. I'm picky about quietness and feel Ford did a good job of addressing this concern, enough to get me to buy one anyway. You now can have a conversation at freeway speed. Now if they could just find some quieter LRR tires... Unfortunately for Ford, the Highlander continues to be way ahead in this area.

Lastly, the 08 Fords use their 2nd generation battery and control system which drops in/out of EV more readily and smoothly. Shutdown in particular is near imperceptible and doesn't require input below 25 miles per hour in most instances, although shifting/tapping will speed up the process. It also now allows more acceleration in EV. Between 25 and 45 you still usually need to shift or double tap to get EV unless you're on a long, slow coast.

Another benefit of the new controller is mileage: Fords get 1-3 better MPG than 05-07s, while the new HiHy gets the same. So the mileage gap has widened slightly with the new models.

Still can't tow with the FEH, and it's still not a high speed demon.

Agreed, across the board. FWIF, both my vehicles are 4wd, not fwd. I got my 4's and F's confused...<G>

I just recently had my FEH recall for the battery harness wiring. They flashed the Battery management system prom and I now get a little easier jump to ev than before. Haven't had the new firmware installed long enough to have any statistical results to share.

MM

Thanks Mark for the contribution, a little late but delivered with authority. It may be just because I know it from the TCH, but I do have high confidence in the Toyota technology. You do make the comparison less easy when you say the HiHy will carry its FE performance into higher speeds. We live a ways from town, and the hills do figure into the equation, both up and down.

Incidently, I am only considering the AWD or 4WD models in this comparison. After the Subaru, I can't get her to drive anything else!

It looks now like it will come down to a test drive to let her gain a feel for handling and visibility in each. I suspect that she will like the smaller size of the MMH if the handling and FE is there. She is also driven by interior design and quality, which is probably why we are moving to the MMH on the Ford Side. I have no doubt she will compare the MMH interior with that of the HiHy.

It is the ignorant among us that will eventually destroy us all.

To see the transmission of the FEH look here:

http://www.aisin.com/product/group/aw.html

Look at the HD-10

Test drives are getting tough! The fuel prices have started a run on off-the-lot hybrids, and a lot of dealers do not have a demonstrator. We had to set an appointment to drive the MMH for three weeks out. We found a HiHy demonstrator, but decided to wait and drive them close to each other in time for a better comparison.

Right now, if I was looking for a trade, I could get a great deal on the TCH in a New York minute -- first question they asked!

So, more in three weeks.

It is the ignorant among us that will eventually destroy us all.

HyHi wins!

Wife felt that the MMH sat a little too high and that height had an impact on handling that she felt was markedlly different than her Forester. Also, the towing became a factor when we decided that we could not put our sea kayaks on the roofrack of the MMH. The last drop was the time to delivery. The MMH is basically sold out for this year and the only way the local dealers could get one was to buy it from another dealer or wait for the factory ... next year sometime. We were able to find a Highlander within the state.

Thanks all for the input.

It is the ignorant among us that will eventually destroy us all.

I've never heard of any vehicle that "prevented" installation of an after market stereo, please explain what you meant by this.

Crutchfield is a cool place to order stereos from. Not because they have the best price (they don't) but because they generally include installation hardware and instructions free with a stereo purchase. The last one I did came with a custom wiring harness so no wire splicing was required. It also came with a custom mount/faceplate that made a nice looking dash install easy.

Here is an example from jcwhitney:

http://www.jcwhitney.com/METRA-ELECT...0615_10101.jcw

I've spoken to the folks at Crutchfield and a few local specialty shops. Because of the design of the FEH dash, you have to cut the original dash and fabricate new pieces. It isn't an easy slide out/slide in procedure like it was on my other cars. No one is making a pre-fabricated solution so you're looking at some serious $$$. Ran into the same problem with the most recent Saab 9-3. They look great, but it makes life a pain for the aftermarket.