Thanks - I hear you.

FYI, one of the more interesting long-term perspectives I heard on hybrids was from a Delphi engineer about 5 years ago. He predicted that by some time in the 2010s, all new cars would be hybrids for reasons that would be entirely consumer driven, but not for the reasons you might think. He then put up a plot of average on-board vehicle electric loads starting with the first Fords and continuing to today. The trend line was fairly linear as lights, radios, air conditioners, cassette decks and other electric amenities were added on. He then showed how mfrs had responded to that demand, showing when the first batteries were added (because the crank start was a pain in the butt), then starters, alternators, etc. From there, he started projecting forward based on what all the marketing people were saying people really wanted in their cars - heated front & rear seats, DVD players, navigation, etc. and calculated very simply that the customer demands would very quickly outstrip the electric supply of current drive trains. In the very short term, that would require higher voltage batteries but then quickly progress to meet demand to incorporate integrated starter/alternators, then hybrid vehicles and then - either as EVs or FCEVs - all electric vehicles.

It's a nice thought, inasmuch as it suggests that we're going to get there whether we're driven by environmental motivations or simply convenience. And I mention it all only because while I agree with you technically, I also think that as the demand goes up, the mfrs will figure out how to meet the customer demands without sacrificing the other stuff that people want in a car.

I just wish it was coming sooner!

I think that is a good assesment SP. However, I don't really do that much commuting with a car, I telecommute and use public transport when I need to go into work twice a week. But I am "growing into" my Prius. It's been a slow process in part because of the weather which has been wet to record proportions. That is making it hard to have fun with the car. I need a good joyride.

Yesterday I took the car into Seattle for an invisible bra treatment and to have a car in which I could come back home with after selling our Subaru Legacy. The Subaru was a five-speed stealth car. Good handling, traction and economy are its hallmarks. It fit like a glove and was a joy to drive in any weather condition. The Prius is still a little distant, requires a bit of thought to drive.

This was the first time I got the Prius out on a familiar route and I was impressed with its handling, though I would like to reduce the body roll. In general it was well behaved on wet pavement, but a tad more skittish on groved pavement. It is getting 40-43 mpg is totally crappy conditions, which is almost double what the Subaru got in similar conditions (lots of short trips, cold, and rain).

But on the drive home it hit me. The Subaru and a few other cars I've been fortunate to drive, imparted a visceral experience, it became one with your body. Shifting was precise and unconcious. The Prius is a highly capable automobile and a technological wonder. However, so far, my relationship with it is cerebral. I am constantly "managing" the car or it is managing me. This is not to say it's a bad car, it's slowly growing on me. I do admire it's efficiency and intelligent design (other than the *^%$#@! rear vision blocking). But we still need to just have fun together on a winding stretch of road with the display off, stereo rocking, and no particular pressure to get anywhere. Then we will bond. We'll figure out the gas mileage later....

Sean, enjoy the Acura. I'm just a little envious.

Well said. I think it's worth remembering that while the old GM EV1s were maddeningly impractical (90 miles to empty, 12 hours to recharge), they did bond with their drivers (remember those old "EV smile" ads)? If you ever had a chance to drive one, you could see why. Not just the enviro bit, but also the really fun part of driving an engine with such huge low-end torque. It's a feature unique to electric motors, and one that I think many of the HEVs fail to fully embrace. You need that fun-factor to make people love it, and you need people to love it to get the volume up.

About 5 years ago, I test drove a Nissan EV at a car show, and got it out on a back road where I could floor it and feel that electric motor hum. I floored the gas, waited, waited, waited.... and found nothing very remarkable about the experience. I asked the Nissan rep what gave, and he said that their marketing research found that people wanted something that "felt" like an ICE, and so they had intentionally tuned the motor to behave like one. (He also said that they got lots of complaints from people wearing through tires quickly from all the rapid starts.) Reasonable points, to be sure, but I would love to see a mfr design an HEV that is not only fun to drive, but takes advantage of the unique performance features of an electric drivetrain. Maybe it'll take us consumers some getting used to, but I think we can get there. It's sort of like eating turkey sausage - nice to know that we can make turkey taste like pork and if you're not able to eat pork it's nice to have the option... but the result is neither good sausage nor good turkey. I'd love to see an HEV that's really true to who it is (and has all the fun stuff, of course.)

I also considered a TSX before buying my HCH II with Nav. Looking to replace my BMW 330 coupe the Acura was a car i was on the verge of gettting but definately didn't love but it did have a lot of amenities for a cheap price. After driving the HCH II i feel like i'm getting a similar car for 6K less and all the cool technology and benefits of a Hybrid. I think you should have looked at the HCH II with its fresher interior and exterior styling rather than the accord.

congrats on the best handling front wheel drive sedan money can buy! ALthough personally the HCHII handling is not that far off and you could have benifited from the FE alot.

But its an TSX! Very nice ride, with the 6spd too wow... haha lucky. TSX hybrid would crush the competition if honda decided to ever make one. And since you have a 6spd you should learn to ICE Off whenever you feel like saving fuel

i got around 20 km a liter when i drove a civic 5 spd using advanced hypermiler techniques
and now I drive a salvage nwh20 prius that gets almost to 25 km/l with 192,000 km to date.

(other than the *^%$#@! rear vision blocking) LOL

I hear the same complaints about the Aztek and Revedous split rear window..

I dont even notice it anymore.. I personally feel I paid more and got more, instead of paying less and recieving less.

This was the first time I got the Prius out on a familiar route and I was impressed with its handling, though I would like to reduce the body roll.

What body roll? I have not expirienced this..

I was looking at the new civic and realized it looks like smoeone pushed down on the roof of a prius and pulled on the front/rear a little..?

04' # 5, W/leather & JBL omitted.
"Prius, Just ask the person that drives one"
04' Tundra, 18mpg city & 22mpg hwy.
04' Prius, 60mpg city & 53mpg hwy.

Kenstyle NHW20 AERO Kit

If you go for the Accord, just get the regular version. There is no advantage to the hybrid except for more power. There will be a Camry Hybrid out in a very short while that may be interesting. And try a Prius. There are several Audi owners that have switched and like them.

Well, it's pretty obvious that you are in love with your car and as they say, love is blind. I can understand how body roll wouldn't be obvious in flat Florida, but when one's route consists of mostly curvy hilly roads, body roll becomes much more apparent. From the reports on Priuschat, it sounds like there are several others trying to flatten out this roll as well.