From the standpoint of behavioral psychology, one might expect that GH's RHMDB might actually be positively skewed compared to all hybrid models on the road. People who would actively seek out this website and log their miles and gallons seem to be obviously more interested in FE and keeping track of their hybrid. I would be willing to bet that for every one of us who participates in these forums and keeps track of mileage, there are several hybrid owners who don't give a crap and drive their hybrid like they used to drive their GMC Yukon. Like it or not, these people who don't give a crap make up the majority of drivers of all cars in our fine country. A user-volunteered database, as wonderful as ours is, won't ever be truly representative.

Ok...we may be parsing words here, since you stated 'usually', but did you forget about the Insight ? When I look at the bar graph (using the simplified graph for simplicity's sake), both CVT and manual are reported as a few miles per gallon higher than the Prius. I also see that HCH-1 is reported at 45/48 (CVT / manual) vs 45 for Prius-1, and 48 for Prius-II. That doesn't look like 'better' to me ?

I'll give you the nod on the larger / heavier, and I'll even throw in 'utilitarian', given the interior cargo carrying advantage inherent in the HB form factor, and the folding rear seat that the Prius has. ('faster', I'd like a refresher on...time for some more research). Even if it is 'faster', we're talking straight-line acceleration only - while I've never driven a PriusII, it does look like it's center of gravity may be a bit higher, compared to the Civic, and I know that fixed beam rear axle the Prius has (along with whatever else the Prius has carried over from the Echo's underpinnings) compared to the Civic's independent rear suspension does not make the Prius compare favorably. Am I stating this from a 'performance' standpoint (ie; the car can corner better) ? Only from a standpoint of less risk when taking a corner at speed, so as to reduce energy loss from slowing more to take that corner than is (safely) required., then having to reaccelerate to the previous speed. So really, I'm thinking from a FE aspect here.

W/ regard to the 'results speaking for themselves' - you must admit, we have quite a small sample for a car that has only been introduced to public roads for about a month (?) now. Also, my original point was that very, very few people get that 60mpg, or even close to it, and I was referencing all Prius' sold, not just the 400-odd ones registered on this site. What do I base my argument on ? Every piece of publicly available information I can get my hands on. This is the only place I've seen people with these cars at 60mpg or better maintained as a lmpg average.


I will defer to you on this one, as you have been a member of this site a bit longer than myself. I did keep my promise to apologize, per the site owner's post that he had eliminated the logged entry.

Off-topic - For the record, I am replying to this post only, rather than both this and the other, in deference to the moderator's public request to drop that discussion. My current reticence to reply to the other poster's last remarks should not, however, be interpreted as either submission or acknowledgement of an inferior debating position.

Again, let us discuss practical results, vs controlled conditions. I think you had pushed the Prius to approx 126mpg in your best segment ? Didn't you achieve the exact same FE in the HCH-I owner's car as well (granted, over a shorter distance, but not as controlled) ? I remember reading and contributing to that post some months ago and was heartened to hear the results. So often HMC is impugned for 'lesser' engineering, when the person who takes the time to dig for the info often finds the inverse true. They do have a long way to go to catch up to TMC in the marketing dept, however.


I would agree in the scenario of ultra-congested urban driving (let us say... the downtown areas of major metropolitan cities). However, I live in a suburban area where it snows in the winter, and every day in rush hour, I see the telltale wisp of CO eminating from the tailpipe of every Prius I see (and I see them daily) starting from rest. I would bravely offer that I have never seen a Prius move forward from rest, without starting the ICE (at least in winter). And I wouldn't say they're racing from stoplights, either.

One of these days, perhaps I'll get a chance to actually drive one (I see one or two in the parking garage at work; locating one at a dealer is a different scenario entirely), and see what it can do from rest (ie; just how slowly you have to accelerate to keep ICE-off, as Prius advocates so often crow about as the superior advantage). However, I doubt that I would actually purchase the car, given what I know about Toyota's track record of building transportation appliances, vs actual automobiles that enthusiasts would enjoy driving, the rare Supra-type vehicle notwithstanding. For those that want an insular driving experience, and not too concerned about price, I'm sure Toyota products are very pleasing to them. For the rest of us wanting the best value for money when we purchase cars, and something a bit more enjoyable to drive, Honda is hard to beat, in my book.

Well, I would certainly hope that an Accord and especially an Acura would be nicer than a Corolla! LOL However, I've seen your other posts eagerly awaiting the upcoming Camry hybrid, its apparent sub-optimal (to paraphrase you) ICE powerplant choice and incremental rather than daring sheetmetal changes notwithstanding (when I say incremental, I refer to the apparent Lexus styling cues, rather than a true clean sheet design). Given your past ownership experiences, I'm guessing that you may have purchased your last Honda automobile. Yes, I'm being presumptive - but let's see what the future holds, and what actually pulls up in Xcel's driveway


This interests me...might you have a handy link ? Otherwise, I'll trudge through EPA.gov and see what I can find. TIA, btw, if you provide the link.

As I stated in the other thread...it was not I.

Just a note to all. When I said in the other thread that "we should just drop this thread and come back in a year" I didn't mean to actualy stop posting. I was just saying that there was insufficient data at this time. So please continue posting in that thread as well if you like.

Sorry for the confusion.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

Hi everyone if any of you were interested in a normal owner of a Prius 2005 and their mileage, here it is 43 MPG as an average so far and they have had the vehicle for approx. 6-months. Prius is driven on the Interestate and in town and the owner is a Doctor/Physician my Sister-In-Law with 3-Boys riding in the Prius.

So that is the Avg. Mileage 43 MPG with a person just driving one in a normal manner. No-Stop Light Drag-Racing Starts and No 80-85 MPH Interstate Speeds. Interestate is more in the range of 70-75 MPH at best.

If you wondered and want the Facts here is a example.

HTH

Terry

BTW: I only mention Her Title to show that she is not a (Car-Enthusiast).

Terry, in the absence of a database of hundreds of drivers and cumulated years of experience, that is really interesting data. Now that I know the Facts, I should probably sell my car.

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

NO! Don't do that. The prius is still a great car

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

I don't know, Tom ...

43 mpg is pretty sucky

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

Heh. Man on the street wouldn't say that. But I've seen your logs. And I can only dream of achieving what you have in your car. One thing I did notice though is that the civic for one reason or another seems to have more people doing better than EPA than the prius. Not sure why that is. Maybe fewer people with city routes vs highway. While I am realy hoping the HCH II will turn out to get better results than the Prius II, I think overall it wouldn't matter since each car is pretty good. And who knows what the Prius III will be like... Maybe have a plugin option built in. Then it would take another jump ahead in FE and cleanliness.

It's totaly an exciting time in the automotive industry even if a lot of people don't know it yet.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

My statistics skills have rusted over time, but the fact that the histogram has reached a normal distribution, and the mean has not changed by more than a few tenths of one mpg over the past 100 cars without a trend argues that the sample size as it currently stands is enough to extrapolate to the whole group. More outliers will be found, but the mean is pretty solid. Now, whether the sample has bias is an open question, and beyond my means to try to quantify. It would, however, probably be fair to subscribe the same bias to the other car pools.

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"