Notice the Lexus GS Hybrid banner ads that are appearing all over this site? (there's probably one at the bottom of this post)

339 hp? Five-second 0-60? A car with EPA rating of 25/28 MPG and claims to be environmentally friendly? Now there's an example of hybrid technology gone horribly wrong. If this is the future of hybrid vehicles, then color me pissed.

30% better MPG than V8 competitors? Ha. That's like advertising a truck that gets 30% better mileage than a hummer. Um, they should all do that.

If the car makers treat the hybrid option as a turbo boost to cars that are already gas hogs, then there's no wonder the media paints hybrids as an empty promise that won't pay for itself. But then again, the V-8 upgrade won't pay you back either (but they never mention that).
Ugh.

 

you're not stating anything new to anyone here; that's for sure!

Silver lining: those buying this version are using (even a little) less gas than what they would've purchased. Still a (small) net positive.

 

I doubt it. I don't think this car saves any gas, they took the same mpg and made more power out of it. A passenger car that gets 24/28? Not much of a Green Hybrid if you ask me. That sounds just like any regular passenger car of its size.

I know it's sort of beating a dead horse, but perhaps by witness of some discussion they'll get the idea. Doubtful, but worth a shot.

 

This topic got a lot of discussion in a previous thread - the whole "power hybrid" concept got a thorough beating. Even though I'm against using the technology this way, I have to concede one point. There are no fuel-efficient cars in this class (luxury performance sedan), so until now buyers had no "green" choices. At least they now have a choice to do something a little better than they would have otherwise. If one assumes that a buyer of this class of car is not going to voluntarily downgrade themselves to a Prius or Civic, at least they have a better option to choose from.

It's the same logic I apply to hybrid SUVs. My preference would be for all these buyers to challenge what they think they need versus what they actually need in terms of transportation. The environment/conservation would gain more ground if performance-luxury-sedan and large-SUV buyers would opt to go smaller and more efficient. However, I suspect that would be a rare case and not terribly realistic. So, if those buyers can't or won't consider other options outside that class of vehicle, at least they can make a better decision from within that class. It's a baby step in the right direction.

I'll add one other collateral benefit. There was another thread where Coyote and myself agreed that because we now own 45+ MPG vehicles, it would be difficult if not impossible to have our next vehicle get less than that. For me, I can't see myself taking a step backward with my next car. So maybe, just maybe, these hybrid SUV and Lexus owners will get a taste of something more efficient and continue to be more aggressive on that front with future purchases.

 

I like your thinking there. Especially the ratcheting up of FE expectations. I know I'll never go back down (not that I'm that high upm either, right now) willingly.

 

Not horribly wrong, just different.

Hybrid and gas savings are not necessarily equal. However, we, in this forum, certainly have a specific application for the hybrid technology.

 

Taking the same MPG and making more power out of it does save gas in a sense, compared to slapping on a turbocharger or adding extra cylinders to get the same amount of power. I suppose you could argue that people should not be driving vehicles with that much power anyway. While I personally have no interest in a 336 horsepower vehicle, I don't believe it's a bad thing for such vehicles being on the market for people interested in that sort of performance. Another plus is that the emissions rating on the Hybrid will be much better than even a similar gas-mileage V6 vehicle.

Actually, economic payback is easier to reach on a gas-guzzler than an economical car, all things equal. I suspect this is one of the reasons the automakers are pushing hybrid SUVs and performance vehicles. Putting $2000 in hybrid equipment to see a 20% cut in fuel consumption on a gas guzzler will save more money than the same equipment realizing a 33% cut in an efficient car like a Civic. I'm sure the dealers can also get more of a profit margin from hybridizing a high-end vehicle than an economy car, as well, so that's why we're seeing all the attention in that field.

I personally would like to see more attention paid to the economical end of the spectrum, as I think it is a much more sensible choice for most people, and that's what I'd be interesetd in buying myself. However, I can understand the economic reasonings why the manufacturers are putting stock on the performance end right now, not that there's anything wrong with that-- I think both ends of the spectrum should be developed more.

One gripe about the performance hybrids though is that it would make more sense from an engineering perspective to improve acceleration by increasing electric motor horsepower and using only a slightly larger engine (to make up for extra charging). Mileage would only drop a small amount if they did that. Right now they're using off-the-shelf parts to save development costs though.

 

I think you hit on exactly what may be the underlying grievance with power hybrids. I think a lot of folks equate hybrid with super efficiency, so when a 20 MPG hybrid comes along we have a tendancy to look down on it (I'll speak for myself anyway, having done plenty of that).

In reality, an hybrid system simply makes whatever it started with a tad more efficient. I suppose one could debate the qualities of whatever we "start with" - be that a 1.3L or 3.0L. There are lots of non-hybrids out there that get better FE than a vast majority of hybrids.

 

I honestly think that if someone is looking for a luxury high performance sedan that is exactly what they're going to get. Some people put a lot of value on something that handles well and has the power to push the limits. While I personally have no desire for one of these cars, I can understand why someone else would enjoy them. Given that, giving this segment of driver a choice that reduces fuel consumption below other vehilcles that fit into the class makes sense.


Norris

 

The problem is that the hybrid systems in these muscle cars are not making them more efficient, they're just getting more powerful for the same fuel consumption. There's no savings. A passenger sedan that gets 24 mpg is no environmental trophy. The economic payback can only happen if the vehicle is more efficient, which they aren't.

And yes, for those who want a performance sedan there should be options on the market for them - there was no shortage of these cars before, there's no shortage of them now, and nobody's proposing to get rid of them - but they shoudn't be calling themselves environmentalists. There's nothing inherently "green" about a hybrid system, it's all in how it gets used. If it gets used to boost power instead of save gas then you can't call it an envionmental gain.

On the other hand, if I need to carry a lot of stuff or people, is there any efficient option for me? No. Not a single one. The toyota hybrids are going for power instead of economy. the Jeep liberty diesel went for the power boost instead of economy, the list goes on. Where's just one efficient utility vehicle? There isn't one, and that really bums me out.