You might be right Stan, but even if you compare to the XLE 4 cyl (like I did) and get all the options matched up as close as possible the cost delta is only around $1000-$1500....BEFORE the tax credit. It really puzzles me how the auto rags never seem to get the comparisons accurate.

I also wonder about their driving tests. While I do understand that they want to drive all tested cars the same and under similar conditions I don't think this is fair to the hybrid. As I drive my TCH more I realize that there are simple, minor changes to driving habits that have a big impact on FE...especially in rush hour traffic.

Because of media pieces like this hybrids are getting a bad rap.

The tax credit runs out in September of 2007. Currently it's only $650.00 and you must not be in the AMT to claim it. I think some people are skeptical of the Hybrid movement simply because they like their SUV's and large vehicles for the room they provide. But as more and more auto companies come online with some sort of Hybrid technology we should start to see a transition to cars that are getter on gas and the enviornment.

Note: The Detroit Automakers have agreed to the "Bush" proposed CAFE increases. They are arguing the percentages right now but in the next couple of years even the local guys will have to offer cars like the TCH (even if they missed the bus today)

All Magazines like to test are Vipers, Corvettes and Porches. They will never be fair and unbiased to the "regular" car. The TCH is, IMO, the perfect regular car because of all the standard features along with the gas mileage that it returns. But this is just my opinion

Will be a TCH owner soon!

I'm glad someone gave the more-complete list of the bonus features on the Hybrid--I tried to do a comparison building a similar set of features onto an LE and I swear there was very little difference (even if some of the options might not track exactly? not sure about wheels, for example). My TCH (which turns 1 this weekend! and yes that $2600 credit was nontrivial--I'm just disappointed the benefits in my state never got passed as well; there was a bill on a tax deduction, HOV access, and free/reduced parking that never seems to have gone anywhere) came with I think 2 actual "extras"--moonroof and floor mats. I don't think even the heated side mirrors were optional. And along with the rest of the controls and things don't forget Bluetooth-enabled, with steering-wheel controls for hands-free over the car speaker system.

One thing you have to keep in mind is just the pleasure of the car, too. What's that worth? I drove a rental Altima a couple of months ago, and even with only 2k miles on it I was so dissatisfied with how noisy and rough it drove compared to my TCH. And yeah, look at the power stats, TCH is somewhere between 4cyl and v-6 for power--I've never had a problem with power (and everyone keeps asking me if it's slow or low on power because they expect the electrical part to mean it's weak--when what it really means is there's an extra boost when you need it!). My car is quiet, comfortable, lots of included little perks, gets great mileage (something to impress the friends, lol), and I have zero regrets. I could have gotten an LE for thousands less but not with what my TCH came with.

And my impression was that the difference between the CE and LE was the LE came with the power driver's seat and the keyless deal? (which I do love btw, I'm so glad someone asked me what that button on the handle was because it hadn't really sunk in when I read it in the manual--now my key hardly ever leaves my pocket, it's great!)

Oh--I think the above list also excluded the standard traction control, which is extra on the LE.

Anyway there are enough standard features on the Hybrid that it's already "tricked out", it's cool, it's smooth, it gets great mileage. If that's not enough of an incentive, I don't know what would be.

I think the auto dealer can install it. I was on the phone with them and we went over this. Virtually they can upgrade the Camry LE far beyond Camry hybrid or any other model. For instance the Nav system seems to be nonexistent for LE model but they do install it on your request, slightly cheaper than Toyota standard.

Much appreciate it! That's what I was looking for.

You can't install SKS to work like the factory.

And yeah, you can 'virtually' upgrade any car to match any car. You could upgrade the Corolla LE to make it like a Camry XLE. I know where to get a rear sunshade, you can get a JBL audio system and TRAC/VSC/BA as factory options on the Corolla. You can get auto-dimming mirrors w/compass and Homelink from Johnson&Johnson. There are probably JDM mirrors that are heated with turn signals. Leather and moonroof are factory options etc etc.

But what you end up with is a very expensive Corolla.

Mods: EV mod, VVT-i emblem, sport pedals, OEM cargo mat, JDM Prius interior footwell lighting, Sylvania Silverstars 9003ST, DICE iPod kit, OEM all-weather mats, TomTom ONE v2, LED licence plate lights.

That's exactly correct, and what's worse it that all the money you spend at the outset on upgrades DOES NOT dollar-for-dollar translate to a higher resale value when you trade the car.

I know because I have been dere/done dat.

Every one keeps asking about the payback period for the TCH. What I want to know is what is the payback if I decide to get a V6 upgrade instead? What if I decide to get a small Lexus? What is the payback time on that? To get really ridiculous what is the payback on a new Hummer? In the end we all buy what we like for many reasons, but the TCH is one hell of a car for these times!

I agree with that, you buy a more expensive car (the Hybrid vs LE - or -BMW vs. Camry) you sell it for more when it comes the time. However the price premium for TCH doesn't make a lot of sense to me. That extra 4 to 12 miles MPG doesn't add up to $5,000 for my usage. I will be the first standing in line when they make a hybrid that makes sense but until then... meh! Those options that the dealer is putting on the car are actually cheaper than Toyota's standards. The analogy to buying Hummer or V6 doesn't really hold in here because I am looking for the best value car between Camry 2007 family.

Thank you guys for your input, cao

The hybrid does not add $5000.

If you do a fair options to options comparison you will see that, but you insist on comparing a stripped LE vs a base hybrid that comes well optioned even as a base model. If you only want a stripped LE, then yes you won't get a cost benifit to just getting a base hybrid, but if you want the extra features a base hybrid gives you then the cost difference is not as large.

For you, I would just get the stripped LE and be done. You seem to have already made up your mind and refuse to look at the true facts.

For me, I would have gotten a lexus ES330 if it had been a hybrid, so the fully loaded TCH was a good alternative. In that case the TCH was less, so there was a cost savings for me to get a hybrid, not a hybrid premium. Heck, I almost got the Mercedes E350 CDI.