I've had my TCH since May. I have 16K + miles on it and have been very pleased. However, a couple recent experiences have been disconcerting. I wonder if anyone else has had similar ones.

First, as the weather has turned cold (below 20 F.) the MPG has dropped from about 36 to 30. This seems totally temperature related. I haven't changed my driving style but the mileage has dropped 20%.

Second, with fresh snow I learned how the traction control operates. I started out from a dead stop, but could not get the speed above 5 miles per hour. I can appreciate traction control if I'm creeping up a slick incline, but, if I'm crossing a highway intersection I'd like a bit of control over the vehicle. Even if it skids, I'd like to have the option of power to the wheels. In my experience, I had the accelerator floored and the wheels crept along as before. The only way to get some tire speed was to rapidly goose the accelerator. I felt like a sitting duck as a truck bore down on the intersection.

I called Toyota and they tell me the traction control is for safety and there is no way to disable or control it. It seems extremely unsafe to allow a computer to make all the decisions without the possibility of override.

That is the way traction control works, I took a new BMW with traction control on a road raceing course and drove the p$# out of it and when it lost traction acted the same way floor boarded and somehow it retards the spark ect with the commputer and will not go over a crawl until it regains traction, Just be carefull or you may get run over.

TCH-43mpg
VW TDI--48
08 LS 600 HL-20
08 LX 470-16

Hybridbob writes:First, as the weather has turned cold (below 20 F.) the MPG has dropped from about 36 to 30. This seems totally temperature related. I haven't changed my driving style but the mileage has dropped 20%.

Bob, I looked the other day in my TCH repair manual and it states the starting and shuting down of the ICE is controlled by oil temp. It would take longer for the oil temp to get up to normal than the coolant temp at -20, hence the lower fuel milage in the cold as the ICE runs more.

TCH-43mpg
VW TDI--48
08 LS 600 HL-20
08 LX 470-16

I agree, traction control without the possibility of override can be dangerous. I had the override button in an early model Lexus LS400, and it was very useful several times. One time when in snow, enough to matter, I could not get going out of my driveway, until I disengaged the traction, and then I was able to "rock" myself out. My guess is an override button will be standard in future models. Hope I am right. Drive safely.

Three comments on lower fuel efficiency during winter:

(1) the cold weather brings lower tire pressure. I found my tires needed air and got a 3 mpg boost when I filled them. Remember to check tire pressure when they're cold. Tires can lose 1 psi per month and 1 psi per 10 degree temperature drop (http://eartheasy.com/live_fuel_efficient_driving.htm)

(2) the cold weather also makes the car work harder. Energy is used to warm up the engine, its lubricants, and our hybrid battery. We also use headlights, defrosters, heaters, and maybe windshield wipers more often. On top of that, the cold outdoor air puts more air resistance to the car.

(3) the winter gasoline blend is phased in during the fall. Winter blend is made to provide higher vapor pressure to keep the engine firing in cold wether (i.e., more butane content). It's nice to have a car that runs, but the bad side is a ~2% drop in energy content on a volume basis (http://www.chevron.com/products/prod.../fuel_economy/)

Don't blame the hybrid!

Unfortunately, I don't think you will ever see an override in a Toyota Hybrid.

The traction control in the Toyota Hybrids is there nearly as much to protect the motor generators as it is to help the stability of the cars. If the motor generators spin too rapidly with no load resistance, bad things can happen.

I agree, you won't see over ride on traction control. If anything, what will be standard on future models is not having ones that used to be present in past models.

My winter MPG has dropped pretty much that same as the others mention, from around 38 to around 33. It's starting to pull down my numbers.

Two climate control systems, one inside and the other at the tailpipe.

Distance: 29169km (75% city - 20 min trips)
FE: 6.77L/100km or 34.7 mpg
Operating Cost: $0.066/km / $0.107/mile

Really, I didn't know that. Thank you, you DO learn something new every day.

Oh, one of those? I think the reformulated gasoline has much to do with it. I've had lots of snow and the traction control has rarely kicked in. Maybe you need to lighten up a bit on the accelerator if it's kicking in frequently.

My husband's new Honda Accord (nonhybrid) replaced his Hyundai Santa Fe. He's thrilled that the Accord has traction control, with an on off switch.

Where we live is extremely hilly (in the foothills of the Appalachian mountains in what I like to think of as the most beautiful part of northeastern Ohio), often snowy, and we both drive thousands more miles a year than the average due to our jobs and hobbies. We really value the confidence that comes with having AWD vehicles, or if not that then something that replaces that. My CR-V is great during terrible weather conditions whether driving on our steep hills on back country roads or in heavy traffic around Pittsburgh or Columbus. I never even have to think about whether to turn anything on or off. Whatever vehicle I get at some point in the future will need to be that easy, as well as more comfortable, with a few more bells and whistles, and with better gas mileage than the 24 mpg I still get with my car after 147,000 miles. It has been really dependable, just less comfy and lower mpg than I'd really prefer.

I had bumped the TCH up to the top of my list of probable cars to purchase when I need to replace my Honda CR-V, but now that I've read the negative side of traction control in it, I'll have to rethink my options. Thanks for writing about your traction control issues, and best wishes with your winter and wet driving.
swvsings