Electronic Bermuda Triangles
#1
06-23-2008, 11:14 AM
Electronic Bermuda Triangles
A friend at work sent me this - I found it interesting. I don't have a link to the original article, but there is a link to another related story.
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Electronic Bermuda Triangles[/FONT][FONT='Arial','sans-serif']
Huh? Yes, they exist for real. I was trapped in one this week. No, I'm not talking aliens and tin foil hats. However, to my great surprise, tin foil does play a roll in this story. And no, I'm not smoking lunch either. To start off with, I will disclose here that I went to see a live Eddie Izzard show on Tuesday, which tells you something about my warped sense of humor.
The other thing you need to know is that since about a year I ditched the Jag and I drive a Toyota Camry Hybrid. I live 4 miles from work, so I go to the gas station about once a month. I never took the Camry to downtown Tampa until this week. And that is where I got into a 'dead zone'.
I park the Camry, and press the ON/OFF button to shut down the engine. So far so good. Next, I get out and use the wireless key fob to lock the car. No luck. Get back in, try to get it started. Error message: "Cannot Detect Key". Car sits in park and is totally dead. I can only lock it manually with the hidden little key in the fob. Call the Toyota Dealership for tech support (this vehicle is basically 30 computers on wheels).
They make me do a few things, but conclude that the battery in the key fob is probably dead. "Call your roadside assistance" was the advice. OK, I get the car towed to the dealership and after the show, I grab a taxi home. Cost? $150 plus the Izzard ticket so I'm over 200 bucks out of pocket. Great show by the way, the man is hi-la-rious.
Next day I call the dealership. They tell me, "Sir your car is fine, it worked when we started it here, and we tried 4 times. You can come pick it up any time". I'm asking customer service: "but, but, but... what caused this?" And then she said, "yeah, it's funny, I had the same problem with some one else this morning, identical car and identical spot in downtown Tampa."
And then the penny finally dropped! I remembered an article a few months back in the Saint Petersburg Times about cars not behaving in two spots in the USA: Around the Empire State Building in New York, and downtown Tampa. Focused electronic interference caused car alarms to go off, kill switches to kick in, cars not starting and similar problems. The suspected reason?
Anything from GPS tracking systems to TV satellites to other cars' alarm systems could be responsible, said Robert Martin, who owns Alarmtek Auto Alarm, a Tampa-based online auto security business. "It could be a combination of all those things downtown," he said. "If you're getting blanket radiation from another frequency, you could be in a field that nullifies the wavelengths used to operate your car's alarm."
Apparently, this also causes Toyotas to lose contact with the key fob and since there is no way to bypass that, you are up the creek without a paddle. But here comes the kicker. The Toyota Dealership Customer Service Rep calls me back and states: "If you hold some tin foil or even a tin can above the key fob, this should not happen". I swear, I'm not making this up! But I'm sure as heck not going to drive to Tampa and try that out. As the story unfolds, I'll keep you updated (I asked Toyota for a refund of my expenses). In the mean time, here is a link to the SP Times article of April 22 that proves I'm not entirely off my rocker. There are probably more of these 'Electronic Bermuda Triangles', not yet identified!
http://www.wservernews.com/OTS8JT/080623-Tampa-Triangle[/FONT]
Huh? Yes, they exist for real. I was trapped in one this week. No, I'm not talking aliens and tin foil hats. However, to my great surprise, tin foil does play a roll in this story. And no, I'm not smoking lunch either. To start off with, I will disclose here that I went to see a live Eddie Izzard show on Tuesday, which tells you something about my warped sense of humor.
The other thing you need to know is that since about a year I ditched the Jag and I drive a Toyota Camry Hybrid. I live 4 miles from work, so I go to the gas station about once a month. I never took the Camry to downtown Tampa until this week. And that is where I got into a 'dead zone'.
I park the Camry, and press the ON/OFF button to shut down the engine. So far so good. Next, I get out and use the wireless key fob to lock the car. No luck. Get back in, try to get it started. Error message: "Cannot Detect Key". Car sits in park and is totally dead. I can only lock it manually with the hidden little key in the fob. Call the Toyota Dealership for tech support (this vehicle is basically 30 computers on wheels).
They make me do a few things, but conclude that the battery in the key fob is probably dead. "Call your roadside assistance" was the advice. OK, I get the car towed to the dealership and after the show, I grab a taxi home. Cost? $150 plus the Izzard ticket so I'm over 200 bucks out of pocket. Great show by the way, the man is hi-la-rious.
Next day I call the dealership. They tell me, "Sir your car is fine, it worked when we started it here, and we tried 4 times. You can come pick it up any time". I'm asking customer service: "but, but, but... what caused this?" And then she said, "yeah, it's funny, I had the same problem with some one else this morning, identical car and identical spot in downtown Tampa."
And then the penny finally dropped! I remembered an article a few months back in the Saint Petersburg Times about cars not behaving in two spots in the USA: Around the Empire State Building in New York, and downtown Tampa. Focused electronic interference caused car alarms to go off, kill switches to kick in, cars not starting and similar problems. The suspected reason?
Anything from GPS tracking systems to TV satellites to other cars' alarm systems could be responsible, said Robert Martin, who owns Alarmtek Auto Alarm, a Tampa-based online auto security business. "It could be a combination of all those things downtown," he said. "If you're getting blanket radiation from another frequency, you could be in a field that nullifies the wavelengths used to operate your car's alarm."
Apparently, this also causes Toyotas to lose contact with the key fob and since there is no way to bypass that, you are up the creek without a paddle. But here comes the kicker. The Toyota Dealership Customer Service Rep calls me back and states: "If you hold some tin foil or even a tin can above the key fob, this should not happen". I swear, I'm not making this up! But I'm sure as heck not going to drive to Tampa and try that out. As the story unfolds, I'll keep you updated (I asked Toyota for a refund of my expenses). In the mean time, here is a link to the SP Times article of April 22 that proves I'm not entirely off my rocker. There are probably more of these 'Electronic Bermuda Triangles', not yet identified!
http://www.wservernews.com/OTS8JT/080623-Tampa-Triangle[/FONT]
Last edited by swhoutx035; 06-23-2008 at 11:16 AM.
#3
06-23-2008, 01:29 PM
Re: Electronic Bermuda Triangles
Yea I was wondering that too as I was reading. It clearly states it in the manual.
#4
06-23-2008, 01:59 PM
Re: Electronic Bermuda Triangles
Holding the fob up to the switch still relies on an RF ping from the car to energize the RFID in the fob. If you have an electronic soup mucking up that part of the spectrum, I'd stick with the tin foil myself. Fold up a poor-mans faraday cage.
#5
06-23-2008, 07:06 PM
Re: Electronic Bermuda Triangles
It should work, if the key is close enough it should be stronger than interference. Author never mentioned trying that. I don't think area around Empire State building is such big mystery, most TV and radio stations are located on top and they pack quiet few kilowatts. Buildings around are probably bouncing the signals down to street level and all different frequencies have probably 2nd and 3rd harmonics creating new frequencies probably close enough to key FOB to blank it. Not sure why downtown Tampa, but probably similar reason. Also I'm sure Washington DC area could have quiet few dead spots, probably for security reasons. It totally messed up my older car alarm, one day I went to DC park the car on the street,alarm went all crazy and it never worked properly again. I'm not sure why Toyota would be responsible for towing the car, unless he has extra warranty?
#6
06-23-2008, 11:53 PM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern New Mexico
Posts: 1,312
Re: Electronic Bermuda Triangles
Don't forget they are some large cities loaded with cell phone towers. They can also screw up locking and unlocking the car door. You would think holding the fob right up to the drivers door sensor would over ride this RF interference. I had a similar problem at a restaurant with a cell tower right behind the building. I had to hold my fob against the rubber sensor with my hand over it to unlock the car.
#7
06-24-2008, 06:42 AM
Re: Electronic Bermuda Triangles
I personally had this behavior happen to me in a strip mall. I was parked about 10 feet from the front door of an Arby's and a Radio Shack, fwiw. I had not heard about these dead zones. When I got out of my car, I could not lock it with the fob. Got back in, and got the message about the key not being detected. I could not start the car, yada, yada, yada.
So I held the key directly against the START button, then depressed the START button and everything worked just fine. I was sure I needed a trip to the dealer, but once I got home, I could not replicate the problem. I then found out about RF interference affecting smart key systems and decided not to worry about it. This was over a year ago and I've never had a repeat performance.
So I held the key directly against the START button, then depressed the START button and everything worked just fine. I was sure I needed a trip to the dealer, but once I got home, I could not replicate the problem. I then found out about RF interference affecting smart key systems and decided not to worry about it. This was over a year ago and I've never had a repeat performance.
#8
06-24-2008, 11:59 AM
Re: Electronic Bermuda Triangles
Not NY but RF on top of the Sears Tower can be measured in VOLTS. Not microvolts but whole volts. Gotta believe things at street level "could" be affected. I wonder if they ever did a study of residents of high-rise buildings with radio transmitters to determine if they have a higher incidence of cataracts ?
#9
06-27-2008, 09:56 AM
Re: Electronic Bermuda Triangles
Yeah there are a couple spots I frequent in Boston (one near Fenway) where I have problems with the fob communicating with the car. First time I almost panicked trying to figure out how the hell I was going to deal with it--used the physical key to get in, then dug out the manual to figure out how to get the power button to recognize it just by proximity.
But since then I've found that the fob usually does work for locking/unlocking, but I have to hold it by the bottom front corner of the rear window and it can take a time or two for the car to pick it up. Still tends to require the "holding it up to the power button" mode to start up, however.
My assumption has always been nearby radio stations transmitting.
But since then I've found that the fob usually does work for locking/unlocking, but I have to hold it by the bottom front corner of the rear window and it can take a time or two for the car to pick it up. Still tends to require the "holding it up to the power button" mode to start up, however.
My assumption has always been nearby radio stations transmitting.
#10
06-27-2008, 06:50 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern New Mexico
Posts: 1,312
Re: Electronic Bermuda Triangles
toyota should put a low level audible and visual alert in the mfd, something like this.
PLACE KEY NEXT TO START BUTTON
I would say a interfearence warning light but the ladys would not know what that meant.
It would be easy for the ecu to read any strong signal other than the fob to detect interfearence. Then the programming the text to the mfd readout would warn the driver.
PLACE KEY NEXT TO START BUTTON
I would say a interfearence warning light but the ladys would not know what that meant.
It would be easy for the ecu to read any strong signal other than the fob to detect interfearence. Then the programming the text to the mfd readout would warn the driver.
Last edited by rburt07; 06-27-2008 at 06:56 PM. Reason: No, it's 7:57 pm
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