Here we go...but notice the price of fuel that was used...a little on the low side....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24669757

I have seen articles like this in the past that have been written by people who know nothing about hybrids! We bought our TCH last year and got a $2,800 tax credit instead zero as listed. Our gas mileage is much better that 34 mpg. They should take into account other factors like brake replacements. A conventional car will have its brakes replaced 2 times at cost of $300 each when the TCH will not have any brake replacements in the first 100,000 miles. You never see that listed in any payback model.

So our pay back is today one year later. Timing could not be better.

Bill

While you've been able to achieve better mileage due to your driving style, tire pressure, etc., the gas version of the car can similarly achieve better mileage than the EPA's figures, were one to employ some of the same tactics.
I am not disagreeing with you, but to be fair, the EPA figures are not necessarily a good measure of comparison, unless you are prepared to use EPA for both.

As with all similar studies, I believe most authors fail to realize that there isn't a gas Camry that is 100% equivalent to the hybrid version (with the obvious exception of the hybrid system). Accordingly, they might not be comparing apples to apples. One study took a 4 cyl. gas and compared it to the 4 cyl hybrid, mistakenly assuming that the two cars were equivalent. I don't believe that they are, since the author failed to take into account the horsepower pickup from the battery, etc.

Other great tools:

• Toyota Online's iGuide
• 2007 Online Owner's Manual
• 2008 Owner's Manual PDF (download link)

I did not see the EPA lowered the MPGs of the TCH for 38/40 to 33/34. I believe the true average is closer to 37 MPGs.

I have seen this information posted before and it is highly distorted. I am not sure why the hybrids are presented so negatively. Haroldo, have you seen other reports that would take all the factors in consideration? I am sure most non Hybrid Camry sales are the V6. Or they could look at resale value as well.


(On a side note I noticed there is not one TCH for sale in a 500 mile radius of Denver)

This kind of report discourages others from making a hybrid purchase when common sense would tell you something different.

Many Thanks!

Bill

I hate (okay, really dislike) when articles like this appears. Buying a hybrid can only be judged on a personal basis. It all depends on the person, their situation, financing, trade-in, etc. For example, I traded in an 06 Grand Cherokee Hemi last October. I had owned it for 15 months. Yes, I took a hit on depreciation (no more than I expected, though). But, my dealer gave me a good trade-in (I was really happy) and now 8 months later SUVs are at a dead stand still sale-wise and my hybrid's depreciation here in the midwest is very little. I'm filling up about every 4 weeks. I'm using 14.25 - 15.50 gallons of fuel per month compared to more than that per week in the Jeep. When gas prices sky rocketed to $4.00 to $4.17 I didn't panic. When I financed the Hybrid I got a better rate. So, it all depends on the individual purchasing and their situation.

I also dislike when writers push other cars that aren't comparable as a better option. Yes, I wanted the TCH for the fuel economy. But, I also wanted leather, sunroof, JBL, nav, push-start, etc. Don't suggest I should have bought an Aveo rather than the TCH.

I saw the wsj.com did a story on the Camry Hybrid price gap to the gas verisons and they quoted a $6000 spread. I e-mailed author and suggested his numbers might be a bit off, he replied that he heard that from a bunch of others. He said he got it from Toyota's web site.
The Toyota web site lists some 4 cyls at a level that is $6000 below the hybrid, so it seemed safe to assume that this was the error in his logic.
As far as an apple to apple comparison, I called my dealer (an honest guy) and asked him what it would cost him the price differential for him to purchase a similarly configured hybrid, he replied ~$3,000 more (although with options and deals that gap could vary).
Thanks!

Other great tools:

• Toyota Online's iGuide
• 2007 Online Owner's Manual
• 2008 Owner's Manual PDF (download link)

I certainly agree with many of the comments above.

I do feel it is fair to use the EPA rating because you have to try to make the measurement as equal as possible. I think comparing it to the LE was a bad choice. I feel the XLE is a closer match.

I do agree it is up to the individual, however, people make car buying decisions all the time. If the increase in price is 4,000 -- that will add another 64 to the total interest (usually around $16 per $1,000 -- of course that depend on your rate). This means to the person buying the car only one thing -- it is more money -- can I afford it?

In my case, I was going to buy a Tacoma (valued at about $30,000). My TCH at the time was about the same. So for me the two were equal on price. I would not have purchased the gas-only Camry. So in comparison to my alternate vehicle -- the pay back was the first time I filled up. Remember, this situation applies to me only...I am sure others are ok with purchasing the gas-only model.

It could depend where you are buying. Down here in SC the TCH are selling for full retail. The 4-cyl Camrys are selling for invoice in addition to a $750 rebate. Invoice is ~$2k less than retail so: $3K (your number) + $2K + $750 is roughly $6K.

It's obvious that the hybrid manufacturers are trying to recoup some of their expenses by offering only mid to high level standard options on the hybrids. They are really not marketed as economy cars. An economy Camry (base, 4-cyl, manual) is another $2K cheaper or 3 years (using $3.94/g gas fueleconomy.gov).

Local SC Numbers (FWIW):
2008 Hybrid Camry $26,365
2008 Camry LE (auto) $20,457
2008 Camry Grade $18,564

My point was it wasn't fair to compare a 4 cyl Camry (gas) with a Hybrid, which only has 4 cylinders.
I think it best (although I don't understand the numbers) to compare the Hybrid to a Camry configured to give the same horsepower output.
The 4 cyl vs. 4 cyl comparison excludes the HP you are getting from the battery, etc.
It's like comparing a bicycle to the Tesla, which both have 0 cylinders.

Other great tools:

• Toyota Online's iGuide
• 2007 Online Owner's Manual
• 2008 Owner's Manual PDF (download link)

It's extremely difficult to compare a Hybrid's purchase price with that of a NON Hybrid of the same model. As we know, manufacturers don't equip the base model of each the same way. Camry vs TCH. Civic vs Civic Hybrid. Prius vs ??? NO fair direct comparison. Read on.....

The decision to purchase a Hybrid vehicle is much more than just $ savings , or fuel savings... ("financial sense") We all agree on that, I think.

Some people would prefer, and be happy with a base Camry LE 4 cyl that would serve their needs, just fine, but not offer the same up-level amenities that the base TCH offers...yet still provides very decent fuel economy, reliability, and resale value. For about $19K. Others would want to compare the cars at an "as close to a similarly equipped level" as possible. Others compare what vehicle they are replacing, when considering what their savings (years to pay back the "Hybrid premium") would be with a Hybrid. Others compare only with what other cars they would choose to buy.

In my case, I would not have bought a car when I bought the TCH at all, and would have kept driving my 03 Highlander V6. I averaged roughly 19mpg in the Highlander, and now average roughly 38mpg in the TCH. I really don't care how long it takes me to "save the Hybrid premium". I thoroughly enjoy all of the creature comforts that my loaded TCH offers, so much in fact, that I expect to have a very hard time finding a replacement when then time comes. NOTHING else comes even close! Approx $30-31K gets you NAV, leather, moonroof, auto headlights, auto dimming rear view mirror, keyless entry and start, stability control, bluetooth, tilt and telescopic steering column, high level audio system, reliability, resale value, quietness, 600-700 mile range on a full tank, AND 38MPG? (just to name a few!)

Incredible value!