Just wondering what everyones thoughts are about the wear and tear on the ICE in the TCH or any other hybrid vehicle? If the ICE is constantly turning on and off (starting and stopping) to either charge the battery or drive the car what kind of wear and tear do you think that could have on the engine? I would think that would reduce the life span of the engine. Thoughts? Do you think we could expect to see the same life span of the ICE in a hybrid car as a non-hybrid car?

I think this is one area where the Toyota engines will suffer vs. the Honda engines in their hybrids. The constant starting and stopping of the engine will take it's toll far faster than leaving it running at a lower RPM/load.. Why? There's no oil pressure protecting the bearings when the engine is stopped. It's common knowledge that starting an engine causes the vast majority of wear. Obviously the "cold" start will cause more wear - particularly in the cylinders.
This is probably one of the reasons that we are not seeing much along the lines of Diesel hybrids. Diesel cylinder and bearing wear at startup is extreme in comparison to gasoline ICEs..

Regards - Randy




If there's one thing I've learned in online forums its this:
Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!

Randy, I agree and thats why I think full synthetic oil is the answer. At least it will slow down the wear to a point.

TCH-43mpg
VW TDI--48
08 LS 600 HL-20
08 LX 470-16

I won't keep it long enough to care, but still will run full synthetic.

Same here, I will buy one of the first deisel - electrics that come out, which it sounds like Toyota will have one by 2010, I have a VW TDI and sure like it. With the deisel-elec combo should produce some awsum MPG.

TCH-43mpg
VW TDI--48
08 LS 600 HL-20
08 LX 470-16

Does anyone think it's unrealistic to get 150k miles out of the ICE without any problems? I'm speaking purely from the engine starting and stopping? I know there can be other problems that will contribute to the life of the engine but lets stick to the starting and stopping issue.

I had a 1994 VW Golf that I put 196,000 miles on before selling. The average trip between starts was around 10 - 15 miles. That's over 10,000 completely cold restarts and I NEVER had so much as a blue puff of smoke or a valve cover gasket leak.

My point in all of this is that I believe the modern Camry Hybrid engine to be at least as good as that VW engine (originally designed 15+ years ago).

The recipe is simple: Mobil 1 and a decent filter changed every 5,000 - 7,500 miles religiously, and the air filter changed and tires rotated every other oil change. It may be over kill, but my cars are in the shop a lot less than my friends.

Anyway, sorry to be so long winded. Just my $0.02!

I think the history of the synergy drive experience with the Prius should provide a good indication of engine wear. They have enjoyed excellent results with one going over 200,000 miles.

The local UPS drivers all drive diesel trucks, and they start and stop their engines at every delivery. This might mean starting and stopping the engine every 100' in a neighborhood. I don't think they are seeing a lot of engine failures with this policy, or I am sure they would be told to keep the engine running.

I can see the cold start as a problem, but a warm start still has the thin film of oil on the moving parts. Sure it is not the pressurised film that the parts ride in, but it is not the same as a true cold start. The best thing that the manufactures could do though is add a pre-start oil canister that would build oil pressure when the engine is running, then release this oil right before the engine is started. This is very common on race engine aplications, but for a hybrid it would need to be controled by the computer and be seamless with no user interface.

If I recall correctly, unlike a regular car ICE which is expected to fire up at around 300-500rpm, the hybrid engine is subjected to a gentler start compliments of the more powerful MG1 which spins up the ICE upwards of 1000rpm before startup. Oil pressure should be at operating levels before the ICE is required to produce power.

Two climate control systems, one inside and the other at the tailpipe.

2007 Camry Hybrid (in service June 2006)
FE: 6.67L/100km or 35.3 mpg (6.11L/100km or 38.5 mpg in summer)