The battery/traction motor technology isn't quite where it needs to be at this point in time to expect 40MPG in any city driving.

Don't feel bad. I only average in the very low 30's but I'm a lead foot and also encounter steep hills as my normal commute. I also drive my TCH like a normal vehicle (life is too short to drive like a granny and fret over MPG).

The folks achieving 40 MPG numbers are not driving what I (and probably a large percentage of other drivers) would consider normal.

I would disagree with this, I think it highly depends on your driving environment. I live on the outskirts of my town, and in my limited city driving, I've found that if I'm headed away from town into the flat rural/suburban countryside, I can easily average 50mpg, because I only have to stop once every 5 miles for a stop sign, and I can't travel faster than 35mpg due to the small roads... perfect "city driving" conditions for the EV-mode to take over. However, if I head thru urban downtown (like on my daily commute), I stop every other block for a stop sign, and I have about 20 blocks to get to the highway. This kills my city driving mileage. I have a gas station 1 block from my house, and whenever I gas up there and head off to work, I see that my tank avg is only at about 25mpg by the time I reach the highway on-ramp. So if this short-trip was my primary driving, there is no way I would see anything close to 40mpg. I even think NYC driving would be better, because when you can catch the street lights correctly, you don't stop for a couple of miles. And when you are in heavy traffic, you are just coasting along in EV-mode. Both will help your TCH mileage.

CAMRHEE Hybrid
Completed Mods: RK-Sport body kit, 18" LexusGS430 wheels 235/50ZR18 tires, TRD/SE springs, Rear Lip Spoiler, Terk XM-Direct, Smoked tail lights, Sliding Armrest, Rear Bumper Applique, Front License Bracket, Lower Grill chrome inserts, K&N, Blaupunkt THB200A sub, moved rear HSD emblem
Future Mods: fog lights, black chrome my wheels

http://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fil...fterFront4.JPG

Yes, you're absolutely right, heavy traffic is custom made for hybrids. No matter what your driving habbits are, when you get stuck in bumper to bumper traffic you just sit there and roll along with everybody else. My commute is very heavy duty traffic and I'm very happy if I can average 20 miles per hour, that keeps my FE above 40 mpg without even trying. If I was living somewhere where traffic is not a problem I would probably get regular car, maybe even stick shift and wouldn't bother with hybrid, after all there is not much difference between 30-33 mphg most cars get this days on the highway and 38 listed for TCH. Short hops in hills of SF are probably the worst case scenario for hybrid car I can think off, by the time the engine warms up and you can start driving in electric mode at least down the hill, you're probably at your destination.

If you were getting 21 mpg with the Avalon, then you are doing about what might be expected. I was getting 29 to 30 mpg with my 07 V6 Camry XLE in my commuting, which is rated with the same mileage as the Avalon. I am now getting about 40 mpg with the TCH. Hills definitely hurt mileage.

I would not say that as i drove 265 miles today at highyway speeds A/C on and headwind, and hilly and cranked out 43.2, since right out of the box it has never seen anything under 40MPG, if you don't keep up with traffic you get run over period!!!!

TCH-43mpg
VW TDI--48
08 LS 600 HL-20
08 LX 470-16

Keep on getting better and better average MPG... just parked in the garage and the average for the tank registered 42.0 MPG... hoorray... could not be happier... remember to be gentle on the gas pedal...

I strongly disagree. The first 2 miles of my commute is 25 - 45 miles per hour. By that time the trip mpg gauge is just barely registering (25 - 26 miles per hour). I then get on the highway for about 10 miles on flat roads (2 overpasses). At first the mpg gauge sits around 35 - 40 mpg. After a couple of miles the SOC is as high as the TCH willn normally allow and the mpg gauge is sitting in the 45 - 55 mpg range. This is doing about 60 - 62 miles per hour in a 55 zone. The last 4 miles of my commute are local roads, with about 1/2 35 miles per hour or under. This allows for about 2 miles of EV mode. With this commute it's difficult to get under 40 mpg.

Terry's original questions included one about the Real Mileage Database. Most of us have focused on how driving techniques or typical topography we drive affect FE. These answers are good, but I wanted to focus back on the question re database.

Terry, there is a forum on the site, called "Website Questions and Input" where you could post a question/request regarding this information. I don't think you can slice and dice the database the way you want at this point from this site. I think the forum is administered by people who could help, or at least tell you whether it can be done.

Good luck!

Bill
2007 Magnetic Gray TCH/Nav/Ash Leather
2002 Blue BMW K1200RS
2000 Champagne BMW K1200LT

Well, to start with, a car cannot be classified as "a lemon" just because it does not meet EPA mileage estimates. If so, then about 87% of the cars on the road are lemons.

If there is something WRONG with your HSD system which is CAUSING the low mileage, then that is a different story. But you have to give Toyota the chance to diagnose and correct that problem at the dealership.

Most Lemon Laws state that a car must be in the shop for three or four times for the SAME PROBLEM to be considered for Lemon status. In Arizona, processing of a Lemon is done by an arbitrator who has several months to make a decision. In the meantime, the car cannot be in possession of the dealership. So if it is broken, you can be stuck without a drivable car until the arbitration is done. Not very consumer-friendly.

Anyway, if you REALLY cannot get better than 30 MPG in your TCH under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, then you should take the car for service.

Thank you for the data.
The EPA city number is for 31 minutes from the cold start.
http://www.fueleconomy.org/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml
Would you please take a picture of the consumption screen which show the 15 minutes vertical bars from the cold start?
I believe we can review the data shown on the picture.

Ken@Japan