I am very close to buying the TCH. My engineer friend (who owns a Prius) just pointed out something that is giving me pause: he mentioned that my commute is so short that I likely won't enjoy any real benefits of the hybrid technology on my commute. He said that the catalytic converter needs to warm up before MPG improves and that my 2-mil (10-15 minutes, depending on city traffic) commute isn't long enough.

I live in the SF Bay Area so we don't get snow. In summer it can get down to 50 at night; winter 30 (though mostly 55 summer, 45 winter).

Is this true? Will I not see much benefit from the Hybrid technology on a short commute?

Does the "thermos warm liquid" technolgy employed by the Prius II help? (I assume it is in the '07 Camry.) How much?

Thanks for your time...

(Note: Granted, this is a good problem to have from a big picture perspective (ie. I'm not complaining and feel for all of you out there with 2 hr commutes).

hi

Funny you should mention this. My wife drives our highlander to the store 2 miles evry 3 days. We put about 20miles per week on the car. I have totally noticed that it gets way lower than EPA this way because its not warmed up. I bought the hybrid before i found this site, and didnt know its the way it worked.

Good for you for checking into it before buying.

The highlander still gets 24MPG from this driving, which is much more than a regular 268 full sized suv would get doing the same driving. Its also better for the enviroment, and buying a hybrid gives you a nice tax break. I still think its worth it.

Hello from Japan.
Just FYI, I own Japanese 2004 Prius and ours does not have the thermos.
I, myself, is a Sunday driver and my wife drives Prius on weekdays for short trip (2-4 miles) shopping.
Our mileage is about 15km/L(35MPG), however my previous car was 1994 Honda Accord Wagon 2.2L and got only 6km/L(14MPG) on the same situation.
We see 2.5 times improvement and are very happy about that.

What is your current vehicle and how is your mileage now?

Ken@Japan

Many many points for paying attention to that one- there are lots of disgruntled owners who didn't know, didn't know to ask, or simply ignored that part.

It takes you 15 min to go 2 miles? After the 1st 3-4 minutes of idling to get up to temp, you will see benefit- the electric side will kick in. So you may see some benefit than you think, but still not all of it.

The 'thermos bottle' keeps coolant warmer for a few hours longer, but not overnight. It helps, but more for the 'parked at the mall for a couple of hours' scenario.

How much other driving do you do? What do you have now? If its small, do you want to upsize to a comfy Camry-sized car/family sedan? Remember, the gas engine in the Camry is still not bad, and you will see the benefit of the hybrid system on anything longer than a few miles- certainly you drive other places as well?

And, petty though it may seem, simply feeling better about what you buy is not bad either. If you can justify the price premium to yourself, its nobody else's business what you do with it.

One last thought- clearly you live in an urban area- can you bike or walk to work even sometimes? That beats any hybrid any day.

My commute is about 1.5 miles to work and takes about 6 - 8 minutes. We bought our HCH mostly because my wife is a professor at a University which is about a 45 mile commute. She only has to go there 2-3 days per week so I use it to commute on the other days instead of the CR-V that I typically drive.....

anyway when driving on my 1.5 mile commute I get around 40 mpg in the current spring/summer weather we are having. Over the winter I would get around 36/38 mpg on this commute since it took the entire drive for the car to warm up. My wife and i get around 45-48 mpg on longer trips and on her commute. Since you live in a warmer climate, you will see some benefit.... obviously a short commute will be hard on the mileage of any car.

I do a 2 mile trip everyday with a dead cold motor.The Prius gets 39 mpg-the 2001 Corolla auto get 25 mpg.This is with motors that have sat all night.The Prius usually doesn't get to EV(run on just battery power with just the electric motor) during this short trip.The Prius allows you to use the AC with the spark motor off-a big advantage mpg wise.
Luck,Charlie

Thanks all for the responses. (More are definitely welcome!)

I've responded in detail below to some of the comments....but my repsonses are long and boring. My conclusion from what folks are saying (please correct):
1) It takes time for the car to warm up and until it does the electric provides less, but not zero benefit. (For example it will still help with a/c and it will provide some benefit.)
2) The MPG will be worse on my commute than it would be if my commute were longer. However, the MPG will still be better than it would be in a standard ICE. (IS THIS CORRECT?)
3) Even though MPG really can't be a primary decision driver with my particular facts (6-7k mi per year driven--really doesn't make economic sense)....I still will emit less emissions and, will have a fun car to play with along the way. I'll also get great mileage on long trips and if my commute ever changes I'll be ready. Besides, its fun! :>

I really would appreciate any additional responses of folks using either the Camry Hybrid or the Prius and their experiences. (Honda technology seems different enough to not be helpful.) Thank you.

And here are my long and boring thoughts on the posts...

That's very helpful info. Thanks.
Yes, it actually does take me 15 mins to go 2 miles. (I used to joke that my commute doubled when my office moved from 1.5 miles from my home to 2 miles because the traffic increased so much my commute moved to 15 mins from 7.) Mostly because of stoplights (I probably hit about 8 of them that are not synchronized) and because of school traffic (I pass 3-4 of them depending on which way I go).
I was hoping that the nature of this traffic would actually be *beneficial* to hybrid mileage...not harmful...
Bummer. (And I'm assuming from your statement that the Camry does have it.)
I average about 6-7k miles per year. So, compared to most Hybrid buyers, this is probably a silly (i.e. won't make difference either way due to my low miles) conversation. But, I need a new car and my commute may get longer someday and I'm not in the habit of buying a new car every year.... I do do other driving for work, but usually that's a 2-mile drive somewhere. About 4 times a month I drive to/from somewhere about 45 miles away.
I need the family sedan. We have one kid with another on the way and we need to be able to stick both (plus etc.) in this car sometimes.
Yes. That's why I'm likely going to buy it.
Actually, I live in a suburban area, but my office is right near a freeway. Unfortunately there's only one road to get to the office and it is not safe for bicycles. Additionally, I work very long hours and leave late at night frequently--the area isn't safe enough even if the roads are.
Thanks--that's helpful too.

All those lights can be beneficial, like you seem to have figured out, in the Toyota setup. IF the engine is warmed up and it can use the electric mode. After the 1st few minutes you will be warmed up and the last part of your commute will likely at least be part-electric.