We need to get this new section up and running! Perhaps if I had a CVT I'd long for one of those fancy new Gen 2s but having a MT I'm perfectly happy with the old Gen 1? So far the Gen 2 has not caught the Gen 1 MT in the database. Until a new model beats the Gen 1 MT in the database Gen 1 rulz!
We don't have fuse problems or 62 mile reset problems (do we?).

Neither do I...

Alabaster Silver HcH

OK, good point on the FE with the Gen1, but how about that air-con during the summer when you've got auto-stop on? Not too cool, eh? Funny, my car still blows cold air at a stop light. And.... It's awsome looking, too. Oh, and 160 watt stereo doesn't hurt. Oh, and there's those side air-curtain-bag-thingies, too. Oh, yeah -- the center console armrest is actually functional and easy to use....

But, you know what -- you Gen1'ers were way ahead of the curve. If it wasn't for you, we wouldn't have the GenII.

Thanks!

Don

Yeah the Gen 2s are nice but "real" men don't use AC.

I was thinking the same thing today with my back soaked as I went back to work after lunch.

How does a "real" man justify driving a Corvette?

Just out of curiosity, what area do you live in?

All my vehicles are for a purpose. The purpose of the HCH is to get me back and forth to work using as little gas and polluting as little as possible. The purpose of the truck is to get me to work in the snow (4wd) and also to pull the boat and jet skis. The purpose of the Vette is to go fast and look good while at the same time not wasing any more gas than an average vehicle.

In my opinion, I would have to say the Gen 2 is superior to the Gen 1 for many reasons. I'll discuss a few topics.

Fuel Economy. Although the database shows the Gen 1-MT beating the Gen 2 by 1mpg, you should consider a few things. The Gen 1-MT numbers are mostly from cars that are broken in and from drivers experienced in driving a hybrid. The Gen 2 numbers are more weighted towards low mileage vehicles (not fully broken in) and new hybrid drivers. There is no way to quantitate this, but I would guess that these factors would be more than 1mpg. The only scientific comparison, that I know of, of their fuel economies was done by the EPA. Everybody knows that these numbers usually do not translate to real world driving, however, they are each tested in the same manner. This makes it scientific. The EPA gives the Gen 1-MT and the Gen 2 a 46/51 and a 49/51 city/highway mpg rating, respectively. The Gen 2 is better. My personal mpg is near the EPA rating. I'm sure I could do better, but I use AC when it's hot and I drive it even if it is just a short trip. The alternative would be to drive my minivan on short trips to artificially boost the FE on my Civic. This would help me win a "game", but it would defeat the true purpose of having a hybrid. A hybrid saves gas even if a trip doesn't allow it to beat the EPA numbers.

Power. The Gen 1 has 93HP (85 gas & 13 elec.) and the Gen 2 has 110HP (93 gas + 20 elec.). At first glance, the newer Civic is 17HP or about 18% more powerful. However, the Gen 1 was measured using the old SAE method and the Gen 2 was measured using the revised SAE method. For comparison, my 2005 Honda Odyssey measured with the old SAE method was rated at 255HP. The 2006 Honda Odyssey (identical engine) measured with the revised SAE method is only 244HP. Anyway, the Gen 2 engine is probably about 25% more powerful than the Gen 1 engine. I'm not totally sure how this translates to actual speed numbers, but I'm guessing the Gen 2 is "faster." The faster the car is, the less likely you will need a special "fast" car. This will further reduce gas consumption and emissions.

shelman also made some good points about safety and comfort advantages of the Gen 2.

Seriously, I have nothing against the Gen 1. I picked the best available car for me at the time I was in the market for one. I also know there is a chance that I will be jealous of future hybrid models as they come out. To expand on what shelman said, just as the Gen 1 helped pave the way for the Gen 2, hopefully the Gen 2 is paving the way for an even better Gen 3.

yeah i'd like to see a gen 2 push his limits and achieve 70 mpg tanks like georga been doing on his hch I CVT.

i got around 20 km a liter when i drove a civic 5 spd using advanced hypermiler techniques
and now I drive a salvage nwh20 prius that gets almost to 25 km/l with 192,000 km to date.

Clearly the fancy new Gen2 has many improvements in many areas. That extra power would be really nice on the highway.

Still no CVT based Civic of either generation would make it into the top 3 of the MT section. This by itself is not amazing but you CVT guys have over 600 cars (over 400 Gen1 plus over 200 Gen2) and we have less than 100. You CVT drivers have had more than six times as many chances to hit the really high numbers. My guess is your cars are not able to hit those really high numbers.