To Wood511:

You very likely are having serious issues with your car and battery, and Honda does seem to be increasingly evasive these days, but: you will get more bees with honey. Your initial reference to "documented" got my goat too. Not to mention posting more-or-less the same message in upwards of 1/2 dozen threads. Anyway:

Try to resist the hyperbole, take notes, gather documents (real ones...), make your case, but do it straight. Don't expect more than you're due, stay polite and assertive, with the dealership and Honda. Don't demand the moon, just what you signed up for: a car that works (more-or-less) as advertised.

One more thing: don't completely write-off Honda, or your car. There just might be benefit in the software, and if you stick with it you might see improvement. None of us really know right now, things will likely get clearer in the next few months.

 

man oh man, you read my mind except you said it much better.

on the last thing; it took me some days to start seeing the differences after the updates but I noticed that with the softwares keeping the battery charged better my recals went down. whats funny is that I started paying more attention to my battery too and with that my mpg was higher when I filled up.
I reckon my battery was in better shape than other hchs but maybe theres a waiting thing in the wings for us??? maybe it takes time to get into the hole and it takes time to get out; the diffrence between hchs maybe in the dept of the hole youre in. I guess mine was shallow.
if this is true then maybe the way one drives the car helps make the hole deeper or not. I wish there was a way to see if the really bad packs belong to people with a heavier foot and low mpg ???

ks

 

Mendel,

Thanks for the advice.

Frankly, I don't have the time to do the kind of stuff many of you do - in terms of taking notes and studying the car. I shouldn't have to do that. For 4 years, I got about 46mpg on average and I never noticed even one recalibration...ever. Now, it's constant and the mileage has dropped dramatically. The dealer doesn't dispute any of this and has driven it and witnessed constant recals. Their statement, read straight from their script over and over is "that is the normal operation of your vehicle and it is functioning properly".

That's kind of the end of it for me in terms of tracking. Especially after I start googling around and find that I'm not alone - not even close to alone. I could document every nuance and every tidbit of perceived malfunction and why does that matter? The dealer sees what I see and they repeat the same statement. American Honda then says "the dealer found that your vehicle is operating normally so there's nothing we can do."

Honda knows about this problem. They likely know precisely what factors cause these issues. End of story. Hundreds if not thousands of others are seeing the same kinds of issues and visiting dealers all the time. The LA Times writes about it.

How should I use the honey approach? What do I do? Take it back to the dealer? And say what?

I don't want the moon. I want the car that I had 6 months ago...and loved to drive for 4 solid years.

I read posts here and elsewhere from serious enthusiasts who have tracked the software updates and meticulously watch their performance. Those people claim to have made logs or otherwise documented changes related to the pre and post performance of their vehicles. That's documented isn't it? I think it is. Just because Honda says something, or someone prints something in a book, does that make it documented? If not, how do you define documented? I doubt anyone here is out to get Honda. I'm not. I just want my car back.

 

One document is:

"Product Update: New Software to Help Prevent IMA Battery Deterioration" (their recent software update notice)

Another is any relevant service work you get done: try to ensure that the dealership's observations and Honda's language regarding "that is the normal operation of your vehicle and it is functioning properly" is on the same paper. Specifically ask the service writer to type that in.

The Owners Manual, which everyone has, might have a few gems. There is the following on page 213 of my 2006 version: "If this vehicle is unused for over one month, the service life of the 158V Nickel-Metal Hydride battery will be reduced and the battery may be permanently damaged".

The Service Manual, which I have, might also have some clues.

Maybe goverment regulatory agencies will get interested, like they did with the recent Toyota acceleration scandal.

Again, don't close the door on the possibility that there might actually be some benefit to the latest software, or any future itterations in the pipelines.

"Honda" is a mix of people I'm sure, some dedicated engineers, some salesmen with "different" agendas. If they collectively **** off enough people, sales will plunge, and hopefully then there will be a shake-up.

 

Wood511, time to move on to a new car. My 2007 HCH was so full of problems and issues that the dealer was not able to fix. I traded it after 2.5 years. Yes I took a loss, but I am so much happier with my new car.

 

This could have been an issue with my 2007 HCH as it sat on the new car lot for 8 months.

 

Ours was in a body shop for a month, and it felt different upon pickup. Not sure how much was due to just becoming unfamiliar with it, but I do think it used up one of it's "lives" there.

I'm not sure how you decide what's unacceptable period of no use, like a month, quoting from the Owners Manual. Likely any length has some effect. When cars sit on lots they start them up periodically, but this is different than daily use.

 

Our experience was the opposite, and maybe that's why our battery is still "ok", though getting recals more frequently. We were in touch with a salesman before they even took receipt of 2006's, he was to phone us as soon one was coming, and that's pretty much how it happened.

My take: poor choices in battery design and integration (their word, LOL), lackluster marketing (cars languishing on lots for months, like yours) and poorly educated dealerships have combined to thwart Honda's Hybrid program, so far. Couple that with their "circle the wagons" response to customers problems...

 

The more I think about it:

The only solution, equitable resolution, is for Honda to work with their customers, to realize we're beta testing their experiment, listen and act on our observations, reduce the onerous cost and miserly approach to replacement of dud batteries, and first and foremost: be candid.

 

Indeed. That is my conclusion as well. Sales will drop off some based on the existing material out there about these deficiencies. As the discontent grows, sales may drop further or Honda may have to start discounting AFTER fixing the problem. Step ONE is to admit they have a problem - and we are not there yet.