Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
#101
10-23-2011, 10:11 AM
Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
Glad to hear about the positive results Hunter...While I'm still not wanting to ever buy from Honda again based on their lack of help maybe it will be worth hanging on to my HCHII if I can get similar results...
#103
10-29-2011, 09:13 PM
Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
Hunter,
I bought a that power supply off eBay and plan to do exactly what you did here. Question - what settings did you use on your power supply? Mine will be capable of 200vdc at up to 200 watts. at 100vdc it will do 2A but the current goes down as the voltage rises above 100vdc. Did you set it for 169vdc and 400mA current?
The current limit default is 2.0 amperes. If a current limit is not set, the power supply
will default to this limit for voltages set below 100 V. If the voltage is set above 100 V,
the power supply will automatically adjust the current limit based on its 200 watt output
capability. The adjusted current limit will be determined by the equation:
limit =200 watts/
volts
I took the bottom seat cushion out today and that was easy. It looks like there are 2 bolts close to the center holding the back cushion in. Do you have to remove any of the seat belts?
Now that you have cycled your original battery, have you re-installed it back in your car to see if the recals are gone?
Regards,
Bud
I bought a that power supply off eBay and plan to do exactly what you did here. Question - what settings did you use on your power supply? Mine will be capable of 200vdc at up to 200 watts. at 100vdc it will do 2A but the current goes down as the voltage rises above 100vdc. Did you set it for 169vdc and 400mA current?
The current limit default is 2.0 amperes. If a current limit is not set, the power supply
will default to this limit for voltages set below 100 V. If the voltage is set above 100 V,
the power supply will automatically adjust the current limit based on its 200 watt output
capability. The adjusted current limit will be determined by the equation:
limit =200 watts/
volts
I took the bottom seat cushion out today and that was easy. It looks like there are 2 bolts close to the center holding the back cushion in. Do you have to remove any of the seat belts?
Now that you have cycled your original battery, have you re-installed it back in your car to see if the recals are gone?
Regards,
Bud
Great news - I believe the combination of grid charging AND cycling my old battery has fixed the fast 'self discharge' issue. I think the battery has lost capacity (normal after almost 100k miles), but is operating normally and cells are balanced.
BEFORE:
After charging it to 169 volts, after 4 days of sitting, it drops to 155 volts (14 volt drop!)
AFTER 2 cycles and 3 grid charges:
After charging it to 169 volts, after 4 days of sitting, drops to 167 volts - 2 volt drop.
However, the grid charge didn't fix this part by itself, I had to connect light bulbs and do TWO full cycles of draining the battery to almost 0% to break up the 'chemistry' issues.
I believe the re-cals would be gone because its 'holding' its charge. I would need to confirm by putting in the vehicle.
OWL - I think the grid charge would help but to reset the battery chemistry you would also want to drain the battery to 104 volts at least one time.
Here is what I believe works:
1) Grid charge to max (186v or so)
2) Drain to almost 0% which is 104V (using two 60W bulbs in parallel)
3) Grid charge to max (186v or so)
4) Drain to almost 0% which is 104V
5) Grid charge to max (186v or so)
6) re-connect to vehicle and enjoy
BEFORE:
After charging it to 169 volts, after 4 days of sitting, it drops to 155 volts (14 volt drop!)
AFTER 2 cycles and 3 grid charges:
After charging it to 169 volts, after 4 days of sitting, drops to 167 volts - 2 volt drop.
However, the grid charge didn't fix this part by itself, I had to connect light bulbs and do TWO full cycles of draining the battery to almost 0% to break up the 'chemistry' issues.
I believe the re-cals would be gone because its 'holding' its charge. I would need to confirm by putting in the vehicle.
OWL - I think the grid charge would help but to reset the battery chemistry you would also want to drain the battery to 104 volts at least one time.
Here is what I believe works:
1) Grid charge to max (186v or so)
2) Drain to almost 0% which is 104V (using two 60W bulbs in parallel)
3) Grid charge to max (186v or so)
4) Drain to almost 0% which is 104V
5) Grid charge to max (186v or so)
6) re-connect to vehicle and enjoy
Last edited by jeep_daddy; 10-29-2011 at 09:19 PM.
#104
10-30-2011, 04:16 AM
Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
To really balance the cells, you want to set it to 190V and 350mA and just let it go as high as it will. This will balance the weaker cells.
The 169V is where the battery ends up when the power supply is removed for a while. Just like a 12V battery charges at almost 14V, but quickly settles to 12.6V when its fully charged.
If that power supply gives you issues going up to 190V, try going in increments, like 170, then 175, 180, 185, 190.
The power supply allows you to adjust the current, but if you dont, it uses that formula you stated.
- Remove the bottom cushion, then remove the seat belt mounts because they will be in the way. After you remove the two bolts holding the seat 'backs', you LIFT the backs UP and out.
The 169V is where the battery ends up when the power supply is removed for a while. Just like a 12V battery charges at almost 14V, but quickly settles to 12.6V when its fully charged.
If that power supply gives you issues going up to 190V, try going in increments, like 170, then 175, 180, 185, 190.
The power supply allows you to adjust the current, but if you dont, it uses that formula you stated.
- Remove the bottom cushion, then remove the seat belt mounts because they will be in the way. After you remove the two bolts holding the seat 'backs', you LIFT the backs UP and out.
#105
10-30-2011, 04:24 AM
Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
I have not re-installed the old battery to prove the re-cals are gone, but I am 99.9% sure that they would be gone. The battery holds charge now exactly like the newer battery I had. Honda insight owners have had success just with the grid charging, however I believe the 'cycling' with light bulbs fixed the fast self discharge issue so I am a strong believer of doing that.
I do want to install it and prove it out, but haven't yet. I may do it on the long thanksgiving weekend in like 3 weeks or so.
I do want to install it and prove it out, but haven't yet. I may do it on the long thanksgiving weekend in like 3 weeks or so.
#106
10-30-2011, 07:04 AM
Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
Do you just use standard patch cables with alligator clips?
#107
10-30-2011, 07:24 AM
Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
If you are charging and dis-charging with low current (from 0 to 1 Amp), then yes you only need like 14 gauge jumper cables.
The battery is capable of much higher currents so you don't want to connect smaller jumpers to large loads or charge currents
#108
10-30-2011, 07:36 AM
Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
Hunter
About how long does each cycle take? Can I do it in one day? How many times do you suggest I cycle them?
As soon as I get the power supply I'm going to hop down to the local electronics store and buy the parts to make the cables. I plan to just pull the seat out and the metal panel to access the battery. I'll turn off the disconnect and disconnect the two main cables then connect the load to discharge the battery. I'm going to do it while in the car. If I really need to go somewhere I can drive it without the back seat.
About how long does each cycle take? Can I do it in one day? How many times do you suggest I cycle them?
As soon as I get the power supply I'm going to hop down to the local electronics store and buy the parts to make the cables. I plan to just pull the seat out and the metal panel to access the battery. I'll turn off the disconnect and disconnect the two main cables then connect the load to discharge the battery. I'm going to do it while in the car. If I really need to go somewhere I can drive it without the back seat.
To really balance the cells, you want to set it to 190V and 350mA and just let it go as high as it will. This will balance the weaker cells.
The 169V is where the battery ends up when the power supply is removed for a while. Just like a 12V battery charges at almost 14V, but quickly settles to 12.6V when its fully charged.
If that power supply gives you issues going up to 190V, try going in increments, like 170, then 175, 180, 185, 190.
The power supply allows you to adjust the current, but if you dont, it uses that formula you stated.
- Remove the bottom cushion, then remove the seat belt mounts because they will be in the way. After you remove the two bolts holding the seat 'backs', you LIFT the backs UP and out.
The 169V is where the battery ends up when the power supply is removed for a while. Just like a 12V battery charges at almost 14V, but quickly settles to 12.6V when its fully charged.
If that power supply gives you issues going up to 190V, try going in increments, like 170, then 175, 180, 185, 190.
The power supply allows you to adjust the current, but if you dont, it uses that formula you stated.
- Remove the bottom cushion, then remove the seat belt mounts because they will be in the way. After you remove the two bolts holding the seat 'backs', you LIFT the backs UP and out.
#109
10-30-2011, 08:32 AM
Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
Jeep - The cycle time depends on how much capacity your battery has left. For discharge, if you put two 60W in parallel you can produce 1 amp which will discharge a brand new full battery in 5 hours. So yours should be like 2-3 hours if its older. You can use a 100W bulb instead to reduce the extra wiring of an extra lamp.
I would -highly- suggest you do the grid charge first. The reason is, you want the cells to be all balanced and level before you do the first full discharge. You reduce the chance that the weakest cell would reverse.
If you want to make it quicker, do the grid charge, full discharge to like 108 volts, then another grid charge to as high as it will go. (if you have more time, do another full discharge down to like 104 volts, then fully grid charge as high as you can go before you reconnect to vehicle).
Also, you have to connect to the POSITIVE connection (where you pulled one of the cables), but the NEGATIVE you have to get BEFORE the black relay below. You won't get your voltage from the normal negative because its relay activated by the 12V of the car. I can send you a picture pointing to it, but its basically a smaller connection down below. When you turn the breaker 'ON', you can probe it with the voltmeter.
Once you remove the two HV connections and two connectors, its just another 2 bolts holding the battery. You may want to remove the battery to keep it cooler, and you can even put a fan to blow on it. Otherwise if you leave the battery in the vehicle, just use smaller currents (less load and the minimal grid charge 350 or 400mA)
I would -highly- suggest you do the grid charge first. The reason is, you want the cells to be all balanced and level before you do the first full discharge. You reduce the chance that the weakest cell would reverse.
If you want to make it quicker, do the grid charge, full discharge to like 108 volts, then another grid charge to as high as it will go. (if you have more time, do another full discharge down to like 104 volts, then fully grid charge as high as you can go before you reconnect to vehicle).
Also, you have to connect to the POSITIVE connection (where you pulled one of the cables), but the NEGATIVE you have to get BEFORE the black relay below. You won't get your voltage from the normal negative because its relay activated by the 12V of the car. I can send you a picture pointing to it, but its basically a smaller connection down below. When you turn the breaker 'ON', you can probe it with the voltmeter.
Once you remove the two HV connections and two connectors, its just another 2 bolts holding the battery. You may want to remove the battery to keep it cooler, and you can even put a fan to blow on it. Otherwise if you leave the battery in the vehicle, just use smaller currents (less load and the minimal grid charge 350 or 400mA)
#110
10-30-2011, 09:23 AM
Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
Hunter,
Thanks for all the great input. I wii start as soon as I get my charger.
Thanks for all the great input. I wii start as soon as I get my charger.
