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HCH II-Specific Discussions Model Years 2006+

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2008, 12:03 PM
tanstaafl14's Avatar
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Real Name: Dave
Location: Deep in the heart of Florida
Hybrids: A pair of HCH2s
Posts: 351
Exclamation Hi tire pressure: 2nd thoughts

Yes, it does improve FE a bit, but as it turns out at a very high price.

A couple of weeks ago I had my '07 HCH in for its 45K maintenance work. Everything was fine -- except for the rear suspension, which had to be replaced, along with the tires. The culprit: overinflated tires (I was keeping them at 38-40 psi). Fortunately the car is still under warranty and I'd signed up for the dealer's "tires for life" policy, so I wasn't out any cash. Otherwise, the suspension cost alone would have more than negated any gas savings. Even worse, the new suspension & tires have essentially put me back into "break-in mode." My 1st tank afterward was an abysmal (by my historical standards) 49 MPG, and today's was a still-subpar 52 MPG. (Click on the lower banner for this car's history.)

Lesson learned: Don't exceed 35-37 psi. The cost-benefit ratio is in the wrong direction.

.


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2008, 12:13 PM
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Location: Markham, Ontario, Canada
Hybrids: 2008 HCH II
Posts: 11
Default Re: Hi tire pressure: 2nd thoughts

IMHO that sounds more likely to be cause by the negative camber problem, that this thread was talking about.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2008, 01:19 PM
kristian's Avatar
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Location: Colorado Springs
Hybrids: 2006 HCH II, 2008 MMH
Posts: 550
Default Re: Hi tire pressure: 2nd thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanstaafl14 View Post
A couple of weeks ago I had my '07 HCH in for its 45K maintenance work. Everything was fine -- except for the rear suspension, which had to be replaced, along with the tires.
How does having your tires inflated on the high side hurt the suspension? What was the problem with it--was it control arm related or related to the shocks themselves? What parts were replaced? Did you notice any degredation in the ride quailty prior to service? Any change after they replaced it?

.

Commuter car, grocery getter, and summer road tripper--average 10k miles per year.


Winter road trips and ski trips, bad weather commuter and my wife's "daily" driver--expected average 4k miles per year.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2008, 06:27 PM
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Real Name: Jess Montgomery
Hybrids: '06 Honda Civic Hybrid
Posts: 148
Default Re: Hi tire pressure: 2nd thoughts

Yeah, I don't buy that one bit. I've had mine at 44psi since I've had the car (coming up 2 yrs). How can the amount of air in your tires affect the suspension? Doesn't add up.

.

Hybrid Cars Mileage
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Old 08-26-2008, 10:49 PM
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Location: SC
Hybrids: None
Posts: 162
Default Re: Hi tire pressure: 2nd thoughts

Raising the tire pressure decreases the aligning torque of the tire. From wiki:
Quote:
aligning torque, SAT or Mz, is the torque that a tire creates as it rolls along that tends to steer it, ie rotate it around its vertical axis. Even if the slip angle and camber are zero, and the road is flat, this torque may still be generated due to assymetries in the tire's construction.


The cars rear suspension was designed with the tires at specified PSI. Over or under inflating will influence the dynamics of the suspension. Not saying that the over inflation is the culprit, but can definitely be a contributor.

.


Last edited by doasc; 08-26-2008 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:45 AM
Active Enthusiast
 
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Hybrids: 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid
Posts: 81
Default Re: Hi tire pressure: 2nd thoughts

So reduction of aligning torque is not a good thing? I would think that would put less stress on the parts. I guess you're just saying it's not necessarily good or bad, just out of spec.

.

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2008, 10:54 AM
Hybrid Evangelist
 
Location: Moore, Oklahoma
Hybrids: Tafetta White 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid w/o Navi.
Posts: 113
Default Re: Hi tire pressure: 2nd thoughts

Reducing SAT from .032 (Radial 32psi) to .027 (Radial 40psi) will have virtually nill effect on the wear of suspension components. The primary area of concern with SAT is its effect on steering input, i.e. pulling one way or the other. The fixed a-frames of the rer suspension aren't really affected by SAT. In fact reducing SAT will put less wear and tear on them. What will hurt the front suspension over time is constant running on under-inflated tires. This being said, even with under-inflated tires the vehile would need to be driven at extreme limits to cause any noticeable damage. As has been said in a previous reply... it's the a-frame problem that has brought this on, not the inflation pressure.

.


Matt in Moore Tafetta White 2008 HCHII

Last edited by mdarmistead; 08-27-2008 at 10:56 AM.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2008, 01:23 PM
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Real Name: Ronnie
Location: Sugar Land, TX
Hybrids: 2008 civic hybrid
Posts: 51
Default Re: Hi tire pressure: 2nd thoughts

I also agree that tire wear on the center part of the tires will occur, that is why over inflating increases FE, less road surface/resistance. The suspension would not be affected.

The major concern would be hydro-plaining on wet/rain roads. An other result could be steering, pulling to one side when accelerating and the other side when decelerating. and trying to track in a rut/grove.

I have mixed emotions about hydro-plaining. We use to over inflate our race tires if it looked like rain or was raining. So who has tried it in the rain?
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2008, 02:07 PM
Active Enthusiast
 
Real Name: David
Location: NW Georgia
Hybrids: Camry
Posts: 144
Default Re: Hi tire pressure: 2nd thoughts

Try this article from the boys in blue. They count on their tires more than we EVER will. Make sure you read the part about hydroplaning.

http://www.officer.com/web/online/Ed...ssure/19$27281

.


Last edited by GeorgiaHybrid; 08-27-2008 at 02:10 PM.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2008, 02:25 PM
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Location: SC
Hybrids: None
Posts: 162
Default Re: Hi tire pressure: 2nd thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdarmistead View Post
Reducing SAT from .032 (Radial 32psi) to .027 (Radial 40psi) will have virtually nill effect on the wear of suspension components.
The SAT is the only component of suspension model that is influenced by tire pressure. As I said not necessarily the culprit but a possible contributor. As long as you have a slip angle of zero (i.e. solid rear axle or most multi-link independent suspension) the SAT will have no influence on the suspension.

The difference in PSI changes the Mz by a factor of 16%. A poorly designed suspension or suspension components that allow slip angle (i.e. HCH rear control arms manufactured to the wrong spec) will be more affected by over/under-flated tires.

.

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