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There is one point of view that says "I don't know any better, etc, so whatever the machine tells me to do, I am at its service, or they are mechanically illiterate and need something to remind them of required maintenance.
These are the folks that change their oil even before the MM tells them to. No harm with this mode, except that you are spending money, and wasting resources that you don't need to. In the case of the Civc MM, it is about 10-25% conservative it its recommendations. Over the life of the vehicle, many gallons of oil are wasted because of premature replacement caused by the machines recommendations.
The other is to establish a schedule based on the manufacturers mileage intervals (10K mile intervals) to perform the routine maintenance.
I chose the latter rather than the former, but not until I had verified that it was not detrimental to the vehicle. As many of you know I routinely test the drain oil, and have found that it is in excellent shape.
So my recommendation stands, 10K for oil & rotate tires, 30K for CVT and filters, and 100K for plugs, and coolant, and brake fluid every 2 years. I had left the last 2 off of my initial recommendation, but those cycles are standard for all vehicles. These intervals are about 2000 longer than the MM recommended intervals.
Well so that goes back to my original question. Should they be giving me additional maintenance items when I'm in for an oil change?
The dealer said that I should bring the car in more often, closer to 5000-7500mi between oil changes.
All dealers look at routine maintenance as a cash cow, and the more often they can get you in, the more money they make.
There is no harm in more frequent maintenance intervals, except to your pocket book, and the use of more oil than necessary. But what they hay, lots of people like getting taken advantage of, as long as they get a pat on the head for doing so.
Well that's all kind of what I figured. I was also assuming that without waiting for the MM to tell me it's time for an A or B service it wouldn't tell me about 1, 2, or 3. You would think the dealer would be pushing all kinds of additional services just for the purpose of it acting as a cash cow. I just know that the manual give no info on the "when" except "when" the MM says to do the services.
Oh well like I said, I'm never going back to the place that I purchased my car from for reason in addition to the MM.
There is one point of view that says "I don't know any better, etc, so whatever the machine tells me to do, I am at its service, or they are mechanically illiterate and need something to remind them of required maintenance.
These are the folks that change their oil even before the MM tells them to. No harm with this mode, except that you are spending money, and wasting resources that you don't need to. In the case of the Civc MM, it is about 10-25% conservative it its recommendations. Over the life of the vehicle, many gallons of oil are wasted because of premature replacement caused by the machines recommendations.
The other is to establish a schedule based on the manufacturers mileage intervals (10K mile intervals) to perform the routine maintenance.
I chose the latter rather than the former, but not until I had verified that it was not detrimental to the vehicle. As many of you know I routinely test the drain oil, and have found that it is in excellent shape.
So my recommendation stands, 10K for oil & rotate tires, 30K for CVT and filters, and 100K for plugs, and coolant, and brake fluid every 2 years. I had left the last 2 off of my initial recommendation, but those cycles are standard for all vehicles. These intervals are about 2000 longer than the MM recommended intervals.
Thanks for the info. I too do not want to feed the "cash cow" at the dealers any more than I have to. I would like your opinion on the topic of the warranty. I see all your data on why a 10k oil change interval is OK. Given that, what do you think would hold up if a dispute was to arise? Your data that the ICE has been properly maintained, or the fact that the customer has gone beyond the required maintenance interval as stated by the MM?
The issue of self maintenance vs. dealer maintenance to comply with warranty requirements has been long settled in the courts.
The burden of proof that a car was damaged by owner maintenance is on the manufacturer (dealer), and the burden of proof that the car was maintained to the manufacturers specifications is on the owner. So that simply means keeping a record of your maintenance.
For the HCHII the maintenance intervals are 10K (or 1 year), 30K, 100K, so as long as they are performed at those periods no self respecting dealer is going to give you any grief on a warranty claim.
However, with that stated, if you burn up the engine, because it did not have sufficient oil in the crankcase, or abused the car in other ways, then you are probably going to have to foot the bill.
Also, I think Mobil 1 has some sort of warranty regarding engine problems due to oil at their suggested change interval (which is probably filled with legalese). Still it's something to fall back on IF you ever had a problem and IF Honda wasn't willing to help.
The issue of self maintenance vs. dealer maintenance to comply with warranty requirements has been long settled in the courts.
The burden of proof that a car was damaged by owner maintenance is on the manufacturer (dealer), and the burden of proof that the car was maintained to the manufacturers specifications is on the owner. So that simply means keeping a record of your maintenance.
For the HCHII the maintenance intervals are 10K (or 1 year), 30K, 100K, so as long as they are performed at those periods no self respecting dealer is going to give you any grief on a warranty claim.
However, with that stated, if you burn up the engine, because it did not have sufficient oil in the crankcase, or abused the car in other ways, then you are probably going to have to foot the bill.
Thanks for the info. I had heard that the burden of proof that a car was damaged by owner maintenance is on the manufacturer. I was specifically wondering if driving beyond the MM limits IS proof that the disputed damage was caused by inadequate owner maintenance.
If you have very thorough records showing that you change your oil every 100k and the "dealer" states that it should be done within MM limits, what would a judge think of this? Is an oil analysis the only way to prove that an oil change interval of 100k is OK?
I too want the change my oil as infrequently as possible. I am just having trouble with trying to determine what oil change interval would be considered PROOF that I have abused my car.
if you wait until 100K to change your oil, that might be a little excessive. I'd recommend 10K for an oil change.
I just used a 100k interval as an extreme example. I was trying to ask if anyone has had any experience with a warranty dispute and could share what happened. I agree 100k interval is too large. But what about 80k, 50k, 20k, 10k, or 5k, or ......, you get the idea.
We, as well informed / educated drivers are going to ensure that our vehicle is properly maintained. You have recommended 10k (which I agree with). Even with all the data and analysis we can create, I would like to also factor in keeping my warranty valid. For example, if I have tons of data supporting a 10k oil change interval but someone responds to this thread stating he lost a warranty claim because he went beyond his MM at 8,711 miles, I would seriously consider "blindly" following the MM and abandon my 10k oil change interval.
Maintenance Minder 2 views
