Okay, I have a small rant about some comments made on this forum about other manufactures.
The problem I have is with people bashing the American car manufactures. Mainly because they are not environmental friendly or basically a joke for being green.
I would like to point out that Toyota was / is the only Japanese car manufacture that has addressed multiple car segments for Hybrid adaptation.
I would also like to point out that General Motors is the only domestic car manufacture that has addressed multiple car segments for Hybrid adaptation.
I understand people are in their camps for "their" car manufacture but I must say that GM has done more for the environment in this country than what Honda or Toyota is able to do. The reason I say this is due to the fact that most government entities will buy fleet orders of GM products over foreign. I have never seen, for example, a Toyota Police car or a Honda parking enforcement car.
GM has a hybrid for any segment; construction sites (Pickup trucks), Large passenger vehicles (Metro/Transit Buses), family size large cars and coming soon, smaller Civic style hybrids.
I think GM has done a lot for our country and our environment. We can bash them, but why? Some of the comments are because they don't have high mileage hybrids or they don't really make "real" hybrids...
Honda on the other hand only has one Hybrid, just one. They do not have a Pilot Hybrid, why? They don't have a Ridgeline hybrid, why? They took away the Accord hybrid, why? Why did they release Hydrogen car when there are no fueling stations across the country for them yet? What happens when someone purchases one of these fuel cell cars and need to go out of town?
It really erks me that we have such negative press for GM when I believe they have done a lot of research on all their products. The Volt is a nice car, it has not been released because it cost way too much to manufacture in mass at this point in time. Now a few years from now it might be easier to produce at a better cost. Some of their concept cars they have also have good appeal, but cost will be a factor for them too.
I would like to see Honda put up or shut up about their hybrid line. A line is not one car. It is a start, but no where near a line.
Thank you,
-- RANT OVER
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1987 Chevy Spectrum - 200,000+ Miles -Junk Yard
1994 Honda Civic DX Coupe - Truck Hit it
1998 Acura 2.3 CL - End of Lease
2002 Acura TL 3.2 - End of Lease
2004 Acura MDX - End of Lease
2007 Mercedes ML350 -Lemon
2007 Honda Civic Hybrid w/Navi - Active
The truth is that the automanufacturers have been poisoning our little brains from birth. If it's not a Muscle Car, we have to have it's a big honkin' SUV. These aren't rational thoughts, these are marketing-gone-wild driven purely by greed. GM could slap extra seats and a cover on a $12k Silverado and sell it for a $40k. They got fat and happy and promised too much to their labor unions. Now they are paying the price.
Japan put research into hybrids for one reason. Clinton compromised with the automakers and allowed no increase in FE as long as they put tons of research into hybrid technology. The japanese followed suit. Only Bush let that program fizzle and Honda and Toyota pressed on.
Time to rent "Who killed the Electric Car?" and "Roger and Me".
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1987 Chevy Spectrum - 200,000+ Miles -Junk Yard
1994 Honda Civic DX Coupe - Truck Hit it
1998 Acura 2.3 CL - End of Lease
2002 Acura TL 3.2 - End of Lease
2004 Acura MDX - End of Lease
2007 Mercedes ML350 -Lemon
2007 Honda Civic Hybrid w/Navi - Active
I think some of the ranting comes from the fact GM could bring over great cars from Europe, or develop small hybrids. But instead we get hybrid land cruise liners and 1 mpg+ belt assisted Malibu's.
Mr. Lutz just likes to go on record saying everything not already being produced by GM is pretty much a waste of time.
He is in a position he shouldn't be spending his time making sensational claims and negative remarks. Yet he seems to the spitting image of a classless and vulgar american.
From what I read here and other places, much of the issue with GM (and the other 2) centers around overall quality and the reliability of their products as much as poor environmental responsibility. Honda may not have a hybrid Ridgeline, but my wife's RL can get 19-21 mpg, pretty good for a truck of that size with a 260 hp V-6 that can tow 5K lbs. It may not be "fair" but most people have their opinions for a reason. own a Honda but I'm not preferable to Honda or Toyota. I won't however, buy a domestic. Not b/c of their hawking SUVs to everyone who can afford to buy (but not feed) them, but because I've had too many bad experiences with inferior products.
As for GM doing so much, refer to some of the the Time magazine articles posted at cleanmpg.com from the 1970's oil embargo about Gm and see how much they've done for the environment. Fortunately, a number of suburbs around here are buying hybrids from Toyota, Honda and Ford. If the 2-modes show promise, that's one thing. A hybrid Malibu isn't worth anyone's time or money and, quite frankly, is an insult to hybrids.
FWIW, there are hybrids used in public safety. My wife is an Northern Illinois University grad. I noticed this summer when we were on campus during happier times that they have multiple Prius police cruisers, complete with a prisoner cage, full radio equipment and LED lightbars. I apologize if I'm stand-offish about the topic. Threads like this provoke my strong feelings--the opposite way.
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1987 Chevy Spectrum - 200,000+ Miles -Junk Yard
1994 Honda Civic DX Coupe - Truck Hit it
1998 Acura 2.3 CL - End of Lease
2002 Acura TL 3.2 - End of Lease
2004 Acura MDX - End of Lease
2007 Mercedes ML350 -Lemon
2007 Honda Civic Hybrid w/Navi - Active
Detroit really doesn't have my sympathy. I read the WSJ and I remember all the hype about their electric vehicles in the late 90's, only to read about the program quietly canceled in a byline many months later.
For the big-3 going green was all PR-related. When it actually came time to putting their money where their mouth was they were all talk and balked. The fact that Dodge recently rolled out the Challenger (which is an awesome looking, and awesomely impractical car) to much fanfare at the Chicago auto show demonstrates how far behind Detroit really is as to the changing landscape.
While I see the utility in having hybrid pickups, as many people do need a pickup truck for their profession, I think hybrid SUVs are a big freakin' joke.
Why hybrid SUVs? So soccer moms can feel good about saving 1 or 2 mpg and tell the neighborhood they're "green" at cocktail parties? These people do not need a SUV nor the ensuing waste of oil and yet they treat it as a luxury good. Their increased gas demand affects the rest of us, too, y'know via higher gas prices at the pump. There isn't really a demand driven need other than consumer preference for these hybrids, and I don't think these consumers should be able to feel good and get that "green feeling" from a 1-2mpg gain in FE because they have idle stop, sorry.
I didn't buy my hybrid to "feel green" nor get any sort of warm fuzzy feeling that I'm somehow more altruistic than my fellow man, I'm not. I did it to save money on fuel and realizing the return on investment is worth it over the period of time I'll own the vehicle. Also I realize that cheap oil is a finite resource that is slowly running out.
GM's hybrids now offer so little gain in fuel efficiency I can't help but think that they are intentionally marketing them to people who just want to "feel green".
ChicagoHCHII,
I feel where you are coming from but I also don't....
GM currently manufactures the Buses here in the Washington DC area. Of those buses, they are a mix of Natural Gas, Hybrid/Electric, and regular Gas. Now the Hybrid Bus might not save a lot in Gas but it is saving something...
I wouldn't want the older buses that GM use to make for us. We have less smog in our area now because of the usage of these "not so great" hybrids.....
I want to say more but I will reserve...
Thanks
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1987 Chevy Spectrum - 200,000+ Miles -Junk Yard
1994 Honda Civic DX Coupe - Truck Hit it
1998 Acura 2.3 CL - End of Lease
2002 Acura TL 3.2 - End of Lease
2004 Acura MDX - End of Lease
2007 Mercedes ML350 -Lemon
2007 Honda Civic Hybrid w/Navi - Active
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