wick1ert,
I try my best to keep us talking!! err, typing!!

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1987 Chevy Spectrum - 200,000+ Miles -Junk Yard
1994 Honda Civic DX Coupe - Truck Hit it
1998 Acura 2.3 CL - End of Lease
2002 Acura TL 3.2 - End of Lease
2004 Acura MDX - End of Lease
2007 Mercedes ML350 -Lemon
2007 Honda Civic Hybrid w/Navi - Active

Arbittan,

Just a quick note: Our Cadillacs were always properly maintained and serviced by our local Caddie dealer. As supposedly the best of the GM line, they were all a huge disappointments. The items listed were just a few of the major problems.

Our 2002 DOdge Ram has been reasonably trouble-free. Whennew, the guages had to be replaced, and the sheetmetal where the running board attaches at ther rear fenderwell cracked--fixed with a couple of pieces of steel. Also the dash cover has cracked. Why can't Dodge figure out how to make plastic that doesn't crack? Honda knows how!

The key with the whole issue is that Honda, and to a lesser degree Toyota, build cars to please comsumers/drivers. GM, Ford and Chrysler build cars to please their stockholders.

Swinging back to the efficiency part of this topic, have you all seen this list:

Greenest Vehicles of 2008, according to ACEEE's Green Book.
Related:
http://www.aceee.org/
http://www.greenercars.org
Someone's Apologizing for Sorry Fuel Economy but Not Automakers

The only thing I don't like about my Civic hybrid is that it is not designed by Americans and the profits do not flow entirely to America.

Bashing the domestic makers is today's auto snob sport, but astute auto industry watchers already know the quality is there today, and reliability is there on some models. To be sure, they turned out some lousy autos in the 80s, but that was a while ago folks, get over it.

Yes, The General is a battleship that is slow to turn, but their customers demand a large variety of cars and trucks. Personally, my 94 Camaro and 96 Cadillac run like new, both with well over 125K on each, bought a Civic hybrid due to my admiration of Honda design, presumed reliability and service, and to consume less fuel for the daily commute. Each product has strengths and weaknesses (I dislike the road noise inherent in Hondas, my Caddy is very quiet for example). Yes, domestic auto makers are slow to adopt hybrid technology, they appear to be betting their chips on hydrogen.

I love American auto producers and realize that each import I purchase diminishes the livelihood of one of my neighbors that is employed in the auto industry. I have a responsibility as an American to buy American whenever I can, my fellow Americans depend on it, and we are all on the same team. Perhaps the tyrants with the fuel will cause our auto industry to pick up the pace a little.

I, for one, look forward to the day that American auto manufacturers get the same benefit of the doubt that some import brands get, and that they wise up and keep pace with their competition. Some day Toyota will have retirees, even union retirees with health benefits, then the playing field will be more level.

Overzealous bashing of domestic auto makers carries a tinge of anti-Americanism in my opoinion, but last time I checked, this is America and we all enjoy freedom of choice. Each time we make a purchase, we make our choices given our values and personal situations.

I now step off of my soap box, hey, this ranting is fun.

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1987 Chevy Spectrum - 200,000+ Miles -Junk Yard
1994 Honda Civic DX Coupe - Truck Hit it
1998 Acura 2.3 CL - End of Lease
2002 Acura TL 3.2 - End of Lease
2004 Acura MDX - End of Lease
2007 Mercedes ML350 -Lemon
2007 Honda Civic Hybrid w/Navi - Active

carsd, while I respect your message about supporting domestic manufacturers and your neighbors, you may be overlooking one fact that GM and the others hope we overlook and that is that MANY of their vehicles are not made in the USA. Mexico and Canada account for a significant percentage of the content of the vehicle. If this is true, how is supporting the Japanese companies who also do manufacturing in the US worse than supporting GM while it wraps itself in the American flag but quietly outsources much of the work to other countries?

Hey Spinner, the first link in your reply post shows the meanest cars for the environment which is a VOLKSWAGEN TOUAREG 5.0L 10, auto stk 4wd [D] Tier 2 bin 10 15 20 14

I found that quite refreshing since most people think it is the Hummer...

The Hummer is 7 down at the very bottom of the stats! In fact GM is near the bottom whereas the Germans/Europeans are near the top.

(Just found that funny)

It also states that the best Large SUVs are all GM:

Large SUVs
Automatics Specifications Emission MPG: MPG: Green Class
Standard City Hwy Score Ranking
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CHEVROLET TAHOE HYBRID C1500 † 6.0L 8, auto CVT Tier 2 bin 5 / LEV II 21 22 28 Above avg.
GMC YUKON HYBRID C1500 † 6.0L 8, auto CVT Tier 2 bin 5 / LEV II 21 22 28 Above avg.
CHEVROLET TAHOE HYBRID K1500 † 6.0L 8, auto CVT 4wd Tier 2 bin 5 / LEV II 20 20 27 Above avg.
GMC YUKON HYBRID K1500 † 6.0L 8, auto CVT 4wd Tier 2 bin 5 / LEV II 20 20 27 Above avg.
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† These vehicles are "twins" -- the same base model carrying different names.
a A listing with two emission standards (e.g., Tier 2 bin 3 / SULEV II) denotes a single vehicle carrying both a federal and a California emission certification. Green Scores for such listings reflect the cleaner of the two certifications.

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1987 Chevy Spectrum - 200,000+ Miles -Junk Yard
1994 Honda Civic DX Coupe - Truck Hit it
1998 Acura 2.3 CL - End of Lease
2002 Acura TL 3.2 - End of Lease
2004 Acura MDX - End of Lease
2007 Mercedes ML350 -Lemon
2007 Honda Civic Hybrid w/Navi - Active

Yes, and those CDI diesels for consumer trucks that Dr. Z was promoting as the cleanest turns out to be among the dirtiest.

(shrug) I don't look to Europe for solutions either. They're the ones who have to pay hefty CAFE fines every year.

Consumers Reports has the stats. Hundreds of thousands of respondents can't be wrong. Or perhaps this J.D. Power 2007 Vehicle Dependability Study is sufficient.

Let's make the assumption that domestic cars are of equal quality of any foreign brand. Can somebody please point out a domestic car that you "WANT." I cannot think of one (with the exception of the latest Corvette). So given that everything is equal (which I don't completely buy but for the sake of this arguement it is) what are my choices for a Civic sized car, an Accord size car, etc?

What about luxury cars, suv, sports, etc. As for hybrids, they are late to the game but I have yet to see a hybrid that I would WANT that is made domestically.

Domestic's I want? Well what I LIKE sounds better:

- Fusion - Simply the best entry level full size sedan
- Malibu - Much better than Accord and the bland Camry
- CTS - Gorgeous!