Sorry I didn't respond earlier. (I lost the thread until Ed_T refreshed it!)
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Originally Posted by ken1784
Your opinion does not reflect real numbers.
Prius(2932lbs) is heavier than Civic Hybrid(2877lbs).
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I was incorrect about the Civic being heavier. Not sure what I was looking at between the Honda and Toyota spec sheets. With less than 2% difference (55 lbs), I would call the weights virtually identical.
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Again, why costly Prius is less expensive than simple Civic Hybrid?
What kind of costly features are added to Civic Hybrid?
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Frodo and I have both addressed this issue. The differences in base equipment and factory marketing, etc. are all more significant than the difference in cost. It is impossible for us to discern any cost differences due to the different hybrid technologies.
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Prius EPA mileage is 48/45 and Civic Hybrid mileage is 40/45.
I only see heavier Prius is more efficent than Civic Hybrid.
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Basically, I agree with you about efficiency. I've already acknowledged that the HSD is fundamentally better suited to city cycles and more scalable to heavier vehicles than the IMA system.
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Prius(58.7/67.9/175.0) is almost same size as Civic Hybrid(56.3/69.0/177.3).
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Civic is a bit longer and wider, and, typical of Honda, lower to the ground. More importantly, the Prius has better interior space utilization, which is mostly due to it being a hatchback, but also due to Toyota's excellent optimization of the Prius design as a hybrid system. In spite of Honda's usual outstanding job implementing their minimum exterior/maximum interior philosophy to car design which includes the Civic in general, Toyota has excelled on this with the Prius.
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Bottom line (for me) regarding the IMA that it is less efficent than the HSD.
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I agree with your bottom line. I also believe the HSD is better scalable to larger vehicles than is the IMA system. However, from an engineering perspective, I see the IMA as simpler (notwithstanding Honda's pricing strategies), and highly effective, as evidenced by comparing the otherwise nearly identical Civic Hybrids to non-hybrid Civics. Where I see the GM BAS system as throwing 2 cents at a problem to get 2 cents (or less) worth of a solution, I see the Honda IMA as an excellent, cost effective solution for small vehicles. Like you, I see the Toyota HSD (and similar Ford system) as a better solution. I also see great value in the IMA system, and would never discourage anyone with a preference for Honda over Toyota or whose non-hybrid needs might better be served by a Civic to purchase a Civic hybrid.
-- Alan