(Message reposted in the General forum)

 

I'm here to make you all aware of a new automotive engine system. Before I begin, let me first ask you all a question. What would be the ideal automotive power plant? I believe that it would have the best combination of the following characteristics:
1. High net efficiency - this factors in all energy inputs from drilling, fertilizing, growing, harvest, refining, transport, engine thermal efficiency, power transmission efficiency, etc.... work done at the wheels as compared to all energy expended to make it happen
2. Simplicity - System should not be a technological monster but should be simple.... there should be few moving parts and its operation should be reliable and straight forward
3. Compact and light weight
4. Not fuel specific... can use a very wide variety of fuels
5. High performance - high power to weight ratio and very high torque
6. Low maintenance
7. Low cost

Would you be interested in a system that provides all of the above? Would you mind if it were a steam system? I ask because far too many people have difficulty seeing past their own noses once steam power is mentioned. This is a terrible shame as the truth is that the physics of steam power make it the superior choice for automotive propulsion. The problem has never been a deficiency in the physics, but a deficiency in the engineering... until now. I will now describe the specifics of the new Green Revolution (Cyclone) automotive engine. See www.cyclonepower.com for more information. Cyclone Power has designed and built numerous systems. My discussion focuses on the power plant designed specifically for automotive use.

The Cyclone engine is a 100 hp, 618 cc, 6 cylinder, radial piston, heat regenerative steam power plant. The entire system is contained in a compact lightweight package. The engine is self-starting and can operate at any speed from 0 to its rated speed of about 3600 rpm. The engine also operates in reverse. The starting torque is 700 foot pounds, greater than even the best electric motors of the same power rating. NO TRANSMISSION is required. The weight of the entire automotive power plant is only 325 pounds.

The system requires no external radiator. There is NO OIL lubrication. The working fluid (pure water) is fully contained in a closed system and does not require regular changes. In fact, the system requires NO fluid changes. The use of new composite materials for bearings and piston rings allows only water to serve as the lubricant. The lubricity is the same as oil used in conventional systems, but with the added advantage of the lubricant never becoming fouled during operation.

The Cyclone is not fuel specific. It requires only a source of hot gas to produce steam. There are no stringent refining requirements for the fuel as in internal combustion engines. The Cyclone has operated (so far) on the following fuels with NO MODIFICATION at all to the system: gasoline (all grades), ethanol (all blends), diesel, biodiesel (many forms), kerosene, fuel oil, crude oil, waste crank case oil, acetone, orange oil, propane... and others. The Cyclone can also be easily modified to burn solid fuels including biomass, and the Cyclone has operated with some success using an experimental fuel delivery system on both coal dust and wood flour (the use of coal dust or coal slurry will provide fuel at a cost equivalent to crude oil at 4 DOLLARS A BARREL). Wide use of the Cyclone for automotive propulsion will also empower a biofuels revolution. The minimal fuel quality required for the Cyclone allows a number of biofuels to now become cost effective, and without the use of subsidies. There are biofuels out there that most of you have never heard of because they just cost too much to refine for use in internal combustion engines. The Cyclone changes all that.

The efficiency of the Cyclone is similar to Diesel engines. The peak efficiency of the Cyclone was measured at 36%. The Cyclone has additional advantages over conventional systems with respect to efficiency for a few reasons: the Cyclone actually operates most efficiently at PART LOAD where autos operate the vast majority of the time, there are fewer power transmission losses in the Cyclone system, and the Cyclone does not idle like conventional systems. The Cyclone makes the hybrid solution obsolete.

The emissions of the Cyclone system passes CA smog standards for the year 2020! The fuel is burned in a centrifuge at a temperature less than 2300F and in excess air. Particulates cannot escape the centrifuge until they are incinerated. Complete combustion is guaranteed. Nitrous oxides, particulate matter, and carbon monoxide are virtually eliminated.
The Cyclone starts from cold in only 15 seconds and is fully warmed up in only one minute.

I welcome any serious questions on this technology, from even the naysayers... in fact, especially the naysayers. A revolution in automotive propulsion is coming, and most likely from a source that few expected. "Revolutionary" is truly the best term to describe the Cyclone. Automotive propulsion began with steam and will go full circle to return back to steam.

 

I didn't see any prototypes, engineering drawings, cyclone boilers or radiators for sale. Is this really a product or just a solicitation for investors? Redundant postings of the same message inspires more skepticism than a single, factual post. After all, trolls and spammers use multiple, identical postings.

If they offered plans like the homebuilt market sells, I might be interested in buying a set. However, I would expect the plans to be complete enough to fully document what it takes to build my own version. Ideally, there would be three sets of plans for a boiler, radiator and engine so we could mix and match what interests us. For example, replacing the piston engine with a turbine or non-water based heat cycles.

Did I miss the stress analysis of the cyclone boiler? One of the advantages of tube boilers is the stress and strains are well known. These 'cyclone' disk shaped boiler elements would have tremendous lateral stress and the resulting strain would generate tremendous forces as the boiler elements attempted to become tubes.

Did I miss the reports on failure modes? One of the traditional problems with boilers has been explosions that in the 19th and early part of the 20th century often resulted in loss of life from the boiler explosion alone. The subsequent, uncontrolled fire often finished the vehicle and survivors.

Understand that I have nothing against external combustion engines and steam has a long history. But the early history included significant and well known boiler explosions.

Is there any discussion of using the cyclone boiler and radiator in a Sterling cycle engine? Because there is no phase change in a Sterling cycle, the risk of explosive failures is reduced.

If they offer plans for the boiler and radiator for a reasonable price, I would be interested. Of course I'd want to know the heat transfer characteristics of the part built per plan as well as the failure modes. The results of testing to destruction would be a hard requirement.

Bob Wilson

 

I am merely a fan of the Cyclone, and I want to make others aware of it.

The Cyclone uses a standard monotube boiler design with 1/4" diameter tubing. There is no danger of a boiler explosion. The disc elements that you refer to make up the condenser. This is not your old school steam system.

The engine operates on supercritical and superheated steam at 3200 psi and 1200F, and with very high expansion ratios. This has allowed the steam generator to be very compact, thermal efficiency high, and overall power to weight ratio to be very high.

Cyclone Power exists to develop the engines and does not manufacture. The technology is in its infancy, but test results over the last couple of years have been fantastic. The design is remarkably simple. The primary difficulties that have prevented the large scale adoption of steam in automotive applications has been bulky and heavy condensing systems, low power to weight ratios, and low thermal efficiency. All of these have been solved elegantly in the Cyclone.

Once again, my goal here is only to make others aware of the Cyclone as I believe they would be very interested. I would advise that you contact Cyclone for the detailed information of which you inquire. I am not associated with Cyclone Power, and this is information that I just don't have access to.

BTW, I appreciate your posting style. I wish everyone had similar responses.

 

I'll have to add it to my list:

• hybrid factory in Georgetown KY tour coordination
• hybrid after market product development, 2001-03 Prius
• hybrid performance and diagnostic studies, Prius
• hybrid advocacy to answer anti-hybrid lies and claims, all

You might take a look at the "Comparison" tab to see what sort of mileage we are getting day after day, year after year. If you become interested in hybrid electric technology, you've come to one of three or four excellent sources. But swapping out engines in our hybrids is not popular.

I know of one hybrid hacker who is rebuilding an Insight to become a Prius transaxle powered EV, I don't know of anyone who has actually swapped out their existing engines in their hybrids. I also understand the French made a LNG powered one. The reason for staying with our existing vehicle configurations has to do with the integration of the transmissions and engines.

BTW, I did investigate the potential of using a Wankel ICE for the existing ICE. Although the weight was attractive, the thermodynamic efficiency was not there, not even 30%. Also, many visiting diesel advocates come here but again, none of them seems willing to put an engine where their mouth is, in a hybrid. Besides, we're already seeing respectable thermodynamic efficiencies in the lean-burn, Honda engines. In fact, the Toyota Atkinson ICE reports 38% with the potential to go higher. So it is a hard sell to step back to a theoretical, 36% engine that can't even be ordered, much less installed and integrated.

Stick around and do a little reading and you might find our hybrids even more interesting as you can have one in your driveway and use it everyday.

Bob Wilson

 

Oh, I understand your position completely, and it's very rational. It will be some time before the Cyclone will be seen in the market, especially the automotive power plant. I'm not trying to sell the Cyclone more than simply making people aware of the alternative. The first applications will be their small engines (for lawn equipment, to replace dirty two stroke gas engines), the 10 KW generators, and their micro turbines. Although personally, I am convinced that on net balance steam power is best for automotive propulsion. It is the elegant solution. But I will stick around and learn more about hybrid technology.

Speaking of hybrids, what do you think of the upcoming Chevy Volt? I like the idea of a series hybrid (pure electric drive) with a modular design. A small Diesel power plant in a series hybrid configuration would probably be unbeatable in its thermal efficiency, possibly even for a Cyclone. And as you emphasize, the technology is already there. I am looking forward to the Volt, and I hope that the engineering is solid.... and I hope the price is right!

Do you expect the Volt to be a success? Do you believe the Volt to be a step in the right direction?

 

What if the car gets in an accident? Being in the Navy (still in school though), superheated steam is not something to mess around with...

 

Are you a Nuke? I completed the nuclear program many years ago as a MM (and top 5%... ok, it's a small horn, but I still blow it from time to time). If you're still in the program, then I don't envy you.

The supercritical steam density is very high! With such a high power density, the actual volume of steam contained in the steam generator need not be high. In fact, the interior volume of the steam generator coil itself is very small (a 1/4" outside diameter tube). The steam generator coil is contained in a protective shell along with everything else. Check out the web site. The greatest accomplishment of the inventor, Harry Schoell, is the system design where he managed to put everything into such a compact and light weight configuration.

 

It sounds like version 2.0 of GM's EV1. Hopefully, it won't share the same fate. But right now, the Volt ranks with the fuel-cell cars . . . missing from the show room floor and not for sale.

I think we'll see GM's two-mode hybrids before the Volt but I won't have an opinion about GM's two-mode hybrid until I test it.

Bob Wilson