Nanoparticles could make hydrogen cheaper than gasoline
#11
Re: Nanoparticles could make hydrogen cheaper than gasoline
You should be able to easily find at least one of their patents. They probably have publications out there. They do have white papers and presentations on their website. You also might find public information if they have had SBIR grants. However, there are probably NDAs with various partners that prevent at least some of the data from being made public.
#12
Re: Nanoparticles could make hydrogen cheaper than gasoline
QuantumSphere Inc. says it has perfected the manufacture of highly reactive catalytic nanoparticle coatings that could up the efficiency of electrolysis, the technique that generates hydrogen from water.
"Instead of switching 170,000 gas stations over to hydrogen, using our electrodes could enable consumers to make their own hydrogen, either in the garage or right on the vehicle,"
"Instead of switching 170,000 gas stations over to hydrogen, using our electrodes could enable consumers to make their own hydrogen, either in the garage or right on the vehicle,"
Hydrogen is a storage MEDIUM.... not an energy source.... not until I can find it lying around instead of having to MAKE it! If I can find it already there, THEN I can use it as a fuel, until then it can just be used to store energy produced by another way. It can be a very efficient way to store that energy but still isn't a source of it.
The idea of the nanopartcles has some merit... but its being oversold buy that guy.
#13
Re: Nanoparticles could make hydrogen cheaper than gasoline
As for RIGHT ON THE VEHICLE
Hydrogen is a storage MEDIUM.... not an energy source.... not until I can find it lying around instead of having to MAKE it! If I can find it already there, THEN I can use it as a fuel, until then it can just be used to store energy produced by another way. It can be a very efficient way to store that energy but still isn't a source of it.
Hydrogen is a storage MEDIUM.... not an energy source.... not until I can find it lying around instead of having to MAKE it! If I can find it already there, THEN I can use it as a fuel, until then it can just be used to store energy produced by another way. It can be a very efficient way to store that energy but still isn't a source of it.
Hydrogen is another quote-unquote "battery". One needs an external energy source to "charge" it. If that energy source comes from oil, then nothing has really been gained, from an energy independence and CO2-reducing perspective.
#14
Re: Nanoparticles could make hydrogen cheaper than gasoline
The "metal hydride" is a matrix mix of nickel and rare earth metals that due to the structure can hold an amazing amount of hydrogen in the matrix without chemically bonding. It is a hydrogen sponge and Wiki reports it can hold '6 times' the density.
The more I study NiMH batteries and chemistry, the more amazed and horror I have about them. They are not 'polite' batteries like the traditional lead-acid ones and have some rather nasty extreme range characteristics. That Toyota has a dedicated battery controller is about the only way they work in a Prius. But the amount of energy and when in proper condition, they are truly amazing. For example, I'm seeing round-trip efficiencies of 92% in my reconditioned batteries. This is on pare with motor-generator efficiencies. Absolutely amazing.
Bob Wilson
#15
Re: Nanoparticles could make hydrogen cheaper than gasoline
The more I study NiMH batteries and chemistry, the more amazed and horror I have about them. They are not 'polite' batteries like the traditional lead-acid ones and have some rather nasty extreme range characteristics. That Toyota has a dedicated battery controller is about the only way they work in a Prius. But the amount of energy and when in proper condition, they are truly amazing. For example, I'm seeing round-trip efficiencies of 92% in my reconditioned batteries. This is on pare with motor-generator efficiencies. Absolutely amazing.
Bob Wilson
Bob Wilson
LiIon's have some even more interesting issues...for example from what I've read the typical LiIon battery used in your phone looses its capacity to charge very well in around 3 years (ever notice thats when your cell phone starts to die early?).... and it doesn't matter if you use it or not... even if its just sitting on a shelf. I have to assume the ones they are putting in PHEV's have solved that problem somehow--either that or some people are going to be really annoyed after 3 years.
#16
Re: Nanoparticles could make hydrogen cheaper than gasoline
Thanks Tim for your explanation. I had figured something similar, but could not put the words to it. You did it for me.
Hydrogen is another quote-unquote "battery". One needs an external energy source to "charge" it. If that energy source comes from oil, then nothing has really been gained, from an energy independence and CO2-reducing perspective.
Hydrogen is another quote-unquote "battery". One needs an external energy source to "charge" it. If that energy source comes from oil, then nothing has really been gained, from an energy independence and CO2-reducing perspective.
If you start with water... separate the hydrogen and then produce water again.. you can't get any more energy OUT than the energy you used to separate the hydrogen. Its a closed cycle in thermodynamics.
... so the guy with the car "running on water"... well there has to be SOMETHING producing the energy he's using to separate the water.... THAT is the cars FUEL... it doesn't run on "water" at all.
#17
Re: Nanoparticles could make hydrogen cheaper than gasoline
"Runs on water" ignores the law of conservation of energy. It's a very neat way to get people who don't understand some basic science to shell out money, sometimes in great quantities, to "save gas" or "reduce dependence on foreign oil". I have had numerous debates with people who "believe" this trick. Part of it is ignorance of science and the other is ignorance of economics.
The latest frenzy to buy hybrids to "save money on gas" ties into this economic ignorance. I have friends that ditched one or two year old cars that get 23 MPG to run out and buy a hybrid. One case was so extreme I had to say something and I am afraid that I severely offended the proud new owner when I did the math for him and noted that ROI on his particular purchase (Tahoe Hybrid, 20MPG) was 243 years down the road if gasoline went to $10/gal. He traded in a 2007 Tahoe and got $17,500 for it, which left him about $25,000 in the hole on his old vehicle.
As far as the tech behind this press release, I have to take a wait and see attitude. The same with Exxon's advertisements about their LIon battery research. Exxon, who spent 1/1000 of what BP did on renewable energy research claims to be "leading the way in alternative energy technology". Marketing hype.
It's all marketing hype. Nothing matters until there is hardware on the road.
The latest frenzy to buy hybrids to "save money on gas" ties into this economic ignorance. I have friends that ditched one or two year old cars that get 23 MPG to run out and buy a hybrid. One case was so extreme I had to say something and I am afraid that I severely offended the proud new owner when I did the math for him and noted that ROI on his particular purchase (Tahoe Hybrid, 20MPG) was 243 years down the road if gasoline went to $10/gal. He traded in a 2007 Tahoe and got $17,500 for it, which left him about $25,000 in the hole on his old vehicle.
As far as the tech behind this press release, I have to take a wait and see attitude. The same with Exxon's advertisements about their LIon battery research. Exxon, who spent 1/1000 of what BP did on renewable energy research claims to be "leading the way in alternative energy technology". Marketing hype.
It's all marketing hype. Nothing matters until there is hardware on the road.
#18
Re: Nanoparticles could make hydrogen cheaper than gasoline
It MAY be a matter of poor wording. H20 gets converted to HHO - the hydrogen gets burned off leaving only Oxygen being pumped out the tail pipe - not water "at first". Oxygen by itself is very highly reactive (hence why it is an essential ingredient in starting most fires) so on its way through the tail pipe it reacts quickly with any hydrogen that happens to be in the air as it reaches the muffler. Some of the oxygen probably hasn't reacted even until it's left the muffler. So it "appears" that the car is leaving behind water when in fact it's leaving behind Oxygen and those Oxygen molecules are reacting with the first molecules they come into contact with.
That's one possibility. I'm still skeptical about these HHO conversion kits though myself.
That's one possibility. I'm still skeptical about these HHO conversion kits though myself.
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