Hi guys,

Honda and Toyota seem to battle for every corner of the popular automotive market. So, of course Honda needs a stronger showing in the hybrid market than the Civic Hybrid. Cool things nowadays seem to be leaning retro: movies, clothes, cars, etc. So, it seems to make sense that Honda bring the Insight with a vengeance.

It has cool features: fair torque in a lightweight body, good highway mpg, and a six speaker system in the EX. Most alluring of all, thousands less than the Prius. What are your opinions? Considering it? Do you think the Insight can compete with the Prius? Does the so-called cheap interior turn you off? Already have one, how do you like it?


If you missed the quick read, find it here: http://www.greenhybrid.com/hybrid-ca...nd-pricing.php


Thanks!

I been driving this car for 4 Months and I love it's ride. Get better gas milage then the EPA rate it. I get over 50-55 MPG on the Highway almost everyday. Nice features too. Love the feedback lighting in the dashboard that give me a great way to know when I'm driving efficiently or not. I love that my radio can operate my Iphone and play my music. I love driving this car!!

2010 Honda Insight
49/54 (No ECON)
Pending ECON Mode test

I've had mine since July and drive 50 miles each way to work. It's a great little car for the money and I have ZERO complaints! I used to drive a 1500 Dodge Ram and I chuckle everytime I hit the gas pump. The car is thousands less than the Prius, better looking, and is a perfect commuter car. My neighbor just bought a Prius... I'm much happier with the insight. Lots of folks asking me about it too at the stores or gas pump... Considering this is Honda's first serious take at providing an answer to Toyota, I think it's a matter of time before they dominate the market.

Regarding "thousands less", sure if you compare the too stripped down LX to the Prius II. If you compare the EX to the Prius III, it's not "thousands less".

That's pretty wishful thinking considering that the Insight is falling FAR short of Honda's own projections in sales and that it's pretty much only cannibalized HCH sales. Honda seems to have really swung and missed w/the Insight. IMHO, if they delivered the same or better fuel economy than the Prius at the same or slightly lower price in current packaging, they'd be doing a lot better. I'd imagine that some 1st gen Insight owners are a little dismayed that the 2nd gen is a step backwards in fuel economy.

See below:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradv...us-market.html
http://green.autoblog.com/2009/06/15...s-for-insight/
http://www.hondacarforum.com/honda-n...ota-prius.html

Take a look at sales figures such as (notice the massive drop in HCH sales which look like they've been picked up by the Insight instead):
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...-63136022.html
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...01/479945.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/press...09+PRN20091103
http://www.reuters.com/article/press...09+PRN20091103

For some compilations, see http://www.greencarcongress.com/sales/index.html and http://www.hybridcars.com/market-dashboard.html.

06 Toyota Prius, 04 Nissan 350Z; mom has 07 NAH

All your points are duly noted, but the data in the articles that you highlight are dated and inaccurate. The sticker fuel rating is based on the ECO system being turned off. With the ECO system engaged, I average 50 mpg without even trying. Now, there are always those folks out there on “You Tube” that are obsessed to prove they’ve got as much as 64 mpg, but driving the car slow with the windows and A/C off (and all accessories for that matter) is a bit over the top for me. I like to drive the car… well… like a car.
The truth in the matter is we are splitting hairs with the two big automotive giants. To me, it boils down to what your personal preferences are. Prius is definitely not my style and although it has a bigger engine (would love to compare carbon emissions sometime) and more rear passenger headroom, the Insight better suits my needs and personality. I may be old fashioned, but I like my instrumentation in front of me… Not centered in the dashboard. The Insight doesn’t set any speed records in reaching 60 mph with its 1.3 engine, but it gets there 2 seconds slower than the Prius… Wow, I’m losing sleep over that one! The object in a hybrid should be about economy in all aspects. Typical car magazines compare vehicles based on which one is bigger and faster… all the wrong reasons in my book. If I want to Mustang and Corvette, go for it. Hybrids should be based on fuel consumption and environmental impact… Bigger is not usually better in that category.
Americans are slow to try something new and unknown… Honda understands that, and hasn’t really advertised the Insight much. We need time to figure things out and see what the” JONES” are doing. If it's trendy and cool, we might jump right in!
The Insight was the number one selling car in Japan, maybe they know something we don’t… Also another indicator that life in Toyota- land seems to be anything but their “tellytubby” Prius commercials. The CEO just took a 30% pay cut….
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/25/new-toyota-ceo-takes-30-pay-cut-sees-no-recovery-for-two-years/
Hmmm, where there’s smoke... I turned in the wife’s 2008 RAV4 last week for a CRV… Another top pick from CR… That reminds me, I need to renew my subscription.
If you check out the latest edition of Consumer Reports you might surprise yourself with the hybrid reliability results… Although Toyota remains a close second, I believe in time you’ll see them fall back as Honda pulls ahead. I know… I know… More wishful thinking, but if I’m correct I’d hurry now to get a good trade for your Toyota. Mr. Opportunity won’t be knocking for long…

How is the data inaccurate? Honda has fallen FAR short of their projected US sales. I've posted actual sales figures from the manufacturers as well.

Here's more:
http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=4978
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/1097/releases/5000
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/1097/releases/5026
http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=5057
http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=5114
http://automobiles.honda.com/news/pr...x?Article=5167
http://automobiles.honda.com/news/pr...x?Article=5212
http://www.reuters.com/article/press...09+PRN20091103

In order to hit their original projection of 90K units in the US for a year, they'd have to average 7500/month. Their top month only pulled in 4226 and last month, they only sold 1739. The Prius sold 18886 and 13496 in the US in those respective months. (http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...01/476046.html and http://www.reuters.com/article/press...09+PRN20091103)

FWIW, the EPA found that turning the ECO button on/off in the Insight made no difference on the EPA cycle (due to the nature of the test). See http://www.caranddriver.com/features...timates_page_3 but you might want to start at http://www.caranddriver.com/features...imates-feature.

As for comparing "carbon emissions", that is directly proportional to the amount of fuel burned. See http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/co2.shtml. You can compare them yourself based on the EPA test results at http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm. 3.7 tons/year for the 2010 Prius due to its higher combined mileage vs. 4.5 tons/year for the Insight.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05220/550484.stm hit 110 mpg in a previous gen Prius by hypermiling, which is admittedly not a practical way to drive.

I've taken my Z and my former 02 Maxima drag racing at the track before and I can tell you that even 1 second in the 1/4 mile is huge. I don't have my timeslips in front me, but on my 287 hp Z, I recall 1/4 mile times in the range of ~13.9 @ ~90 mph.

Regarding the Insight being "number one selling car in Japan", it lost that title to the Prius. The Prius became the top selling car there for 6 straight months so far. For October 09, the Insight dropped to position #9.
See:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009...-20090604.html
http://news.brisbanetimes.com.au/bre...1107-i2hm.html
http://www.google.com/hostednews/can...ieF035vXEoaLLw

I don't see what CEOs cutting their own pay has anything to do with all of this. Should I bring up irrelevant Honda pay cuts too?
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/BUSINESS...uts/index.html
http://article.wn.com/view/2009/02/0...ake_5_pay_cut/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123853762031875371.html

FWIW, the folks at http://avt.inl.gov/hev.shtml at http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/hev/hondainsightII_ar.pdf most likely aren't trying and are averaging 40.5 mpg right now.

There's no way I'd trade in my 2nd gen Prius for an Insight. It's seems bizarre to think that the Insight is superior to even the 2nd gen Prius.

BTW, it's funny that you'd bring up CR. CR felt the Insight scored too low to recommend (http://pressroom.consumerreports.org...rear-seat.html) which I'm sure you've seen.

06 Toyota Prius, 04 Nissan 350Z; mom has 07 NAH

Never said the Insight was superior to anything, mearly made a simple comparison of apples and oranges. Neither side will agree with the other, so I think we'll leave it at that.

Now if I can just find my timeslips for my 69 Chevelle...

You sure implied it with "More wishful thinking, but if I’m correct I’d hurry now to get a good trade for your Toyota. Mr. Opportunity won’t be knocking for long…" Why would someone trade a perfectly working vehicle for a new inferior one?

One of my pet peeves is when people make false statements and assertions and try to pass them off as fact.

You still didn't respond to as how they're "dated and inaccurate".

I compared them for you.

2 seconds is HUGE a difference in a 1/4 mile time, let alone a 0-60 time. Which one has better overall mileage?

You're the one who posted outdated information. The Prius took that crown and has been holding it for 6 months in a row so far.
What evidence do you have to support your assertions? Besides the sales Insight sales that are falling well short of projections and Prius and total Toyota hybrid sales being many times that of the Insight or Insight + Civic, there's this: if you go back as for as http://www.hybridcars.com/market-das...-overview.html (they don't have data going back further, but it's easy to lookup old auto sales states) and compare to http://www.hybridcars.com/hybrid-sal...dashboard.html.

October 06:
Honda: 14% share 2584 units sold
Toyota: 77% share 14598 units sold

Fast forward 3 years:
Honda: 8.1% share 1978 units sold
Toyota: 76.6% share 18757 units sold.

Where's the evidence Honda's going to "dominate the market"?

06 Toyota Prius, 04 Nissan 350Z; mom has 07 NAH

Are you guys pissing for distance or accuracy?
I happen to like my Insight. The Honda dealer network in Illinois is much more user friendly than the Toyota dealer network. When I went shopping, the Toyota reps were arrogant putz's that basically said "Get in line"
The Honda dealer took the time to sell me a car that I happen to enjoy. Instead of telling me that my trade is worthless and that I should pay a premium for their car, the Honda dealer gave a fair trade value, a discount and more.
I like the 50 MPG, I enjoy the sporty handling, I use the fold down back seats, the navigation system is intuitive and the EX stereo kicks ***.
All in all, it's just a car. If Toyota had been as friendly and fair I would probably like a Prius just as well.

Well said Mr. E... That about sums it up! I rest my case.

Mr. C seems to be low on meds or sumthin... The scary part is he probably votes also. I wish I had nothing better to do all day but sit around trying to prove people wrong (or at least try)... I just don't have that kind of time and frankly... I have a life. But since he loves to quote the entire WWW to the world cause ya know everything you read on the web must be TRUE. The reality is they are both solid vehicles and should be what we all are driving. Not because of everythng stated on this string, but because it's the responsible thing to do. I had a similar experience at the dealership, Toyota was ok, but Honda had it Mastered.

Mr. C here's one more link for you, I know how you're having withdrawls and need something to stew over...

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1160/15-cars-fueling-the-auto-recovery/

Checkmate