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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008, 07:37 PM
Sporkman Sporkman is offline
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Default Fuel savings vs total cost calculator

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Last edited by Sporkman : 01-13-2008 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 01-11-2008, 05:10 AM
CJO2007CamryHyb's Avatar
CJO2007CamryHyb CJO2007CamryHyb is offline
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Real Name: Chris
Location: Raleigh,NC
Hybrids: 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid
Posts: 209
Default Re: Fuel savings vs total cost calculator

Thanks for the calculator, it's nice to see it in print. I'm sure over the long run my hybrid will save me money and also be polluting much less than my old car!!

.

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Old 01-11-2008, 07:55 AM
Sporkman Sporkman is offline
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Default Re: Fuel savings vs total cost calculator

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Last edited by Sporkman : 01-13-2008 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 01-11-2008, 08:35 AM
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CJO2007CamryHyb CJO2007CamryHyb is offline
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Real Name: Chris
Location: Raleigh,NC
Hybrids: 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid
Posts: 209
Default Re: Fuel savings vs total cost calculator

Yes..........i did get the $650 tax credit for my TCH. I bought before the 30 september 2007 deadline! It was a price break.

.

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Old 01-13-2008, 07:35 AM
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bwilson4web bwilson4web is offline
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Real Name: Bob
Location: Huntsville, AL
Hybrids: Prius Classic 03
Posts: 4,678
Default Re: Fuel savings vs total cost calculator

You are claiming more than is there with:
"Auto Fuel Savings vs. Total Cost Comparison"
It looks like your business model is based upon making web tools but you've left out so much that this tool remains crippled and misleading:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporkman View Post
. . .
I wrote a calculator to compare cost of ownership between two cars with different initial costs & fuel efficiency, if you're interested:

http://sporkforge.com/finance/gas_cost.php

It also does time discounting of future costs. Purely a financial calculator, . . .
Sorry but this tool is way too simplistic to the point of being misleading. The Prius community has had years of dealing with skeptics who have tried to use the same, simplistic and incomplete analysis. I'd recommend you read some of the vehicle fleet reports to see a minimum of what needs to covered. For example, search for "fact_sheet1883.pdf" which lists:
Purchase Cost - you've covered
Kelly Used Vehicle Price - missing
Sale Price - missing
Maintenance Cost - missing
Operating Cost - includes fuel, insurance and licensing
For example, you do not include other valuation of hybrids such as vehicle passes that let hybrids get access to commuting lanes nor parking advantages. As for maintenance ratings, Consumer Reports would be an excellent place to research the costs and rating of the different vehicles but your calculator is silent on this real cost. But the real problem is there is no "features" valuation check-list.

From the very beginning, certainly documented in 2002:

Quote:
10-26-2002 At the Dealer, part 1.
CNN had a great segment on Prius the other day. But there was one misleading quote. It really bothered me. Today I stopped at my dealer to verify the facts. It was said that Prius was $21,000 and that a Corolla was only $14,000. It turns out, they were comparing a well-loaded Prius to a stripped-down Corolla without any options at all. I find that very, very misleading. The prices I saw on the lot were $20,500 for a well-loaded Prius and $17,500 for a well-loaded Corolla. Only a $3,000 difference makes a lot more sense. When will they learn?
http://john1701a.com/prius/logs/prius-log41.htm

It turns out that every time someone trots out a "fuel only" study, we know they will omit the feature-to-feature comparison of the vehicle. It is such a reliable failing, so dependably expected, that mostly, our responses are all but automatic. We have seen such nonsense, limited analysis since hybrids first came to our shores.

If you truly want to make a useful calculator, include a list of standard features found in hybrids so the non-hybrid can be properly compared:
  1. alloy wheels
  2. functional spoiler
  3. automatic transmission
  4. multi-disk audio system
  5. electric windows and locks
  6. ABS brakes and traction control
As long as your 'calculator' ignores or doesn't even reference the features analysis, it will remain flawed and misleading. If you need an example, try mine:
Return on Investment
Really, I can't recommend a misleading tool since it also fails to cover how we Prius owners change to gain even greater savings:
Compare Echo to Prius
A gas-only car discourages use of short-cuts that entail stop lights. It turns out hybrids get even better mileage when such routes are taken. This is a common story here and in other hybrid forums. Yet your calculator does not include a "short-cut savings." This is another major flaw.

Bob Wilson

ps. If you are truly interested in a usable calculator, start with the links at this web site:
http://john1701a.com/

.

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My
other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

Last edited by bwilson4web : 01-14-2008 at 07:19 AM.
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:33 AM
Sporkman Sporkman is offline
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Default Re: Fuel savings vs total cost calculator

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Last edited by Sporkman : 01-13-2008 at 01:36 PM.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2008, 10:35 AM
Sporkman Sporkman is offline
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Posts: 4
Default Re: Fuel savings vs total cost calculator

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Last edited by Sporkman : 01-13-2008 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 01-13-2008, 01:24 PM
JimboK's Avatar
JimboK JimboK is offline
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Location: Chesterfield, VA
Hybrids: 2005 Prius
Posts: 164
Default Re: Fuel savings vs total cost calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporkman View Post
All disclaimed, bro! I tried to make it clear that this is an overly simplistic scenario (though I still need to add resale value to the disclaimer).
And among your disclaimers is that it is unrealistic. Why bother then? What is your goal in promoting it here?

.

Jim

Lifetime fuel mileage:

After learning how to hypermile:


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Old 01-14-2008, 01:41 PM
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JimboK JimboK is offline
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Location: Chesterfield, VA
Hybrids: 2005 Prius
Posts: 164
Default Re: Fuel savings vs total cost calculator

Hmm .... Seems he tucked his tail and ran.

.

Jim

Lifetime fuel mileage:

After learning how to hypermile:


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008, 02:35 PM
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bwilson4web bwilson4web is offline
Engineering first
 
Real Name: Bob
Location: Huntsville, AL
Hybrids: Prius Classic 03
Posts: 4,678
Default Re: Fuel savings vs total cost calculator

Perhaps I was a little severe with him but we do need a real 'mileage calculator' that includes all of the features I mentioned. I'm afraid one or more of us will have to do it if it is ever going to be done. But I hate to put up another web site when I'd rather provide it as another feature to GreenHybrid.

Bob Wilson

.

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My
other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.
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