More Iraq information - GreenHybrid

Hot_Georgia_2004 · #1 (**permalink**) 08-24-2005, 09:28 PM

With the latest frenzy including Michael Moore, Moveon.org and others labeling the Iraq insurgents "Freedom fighters"....
And many more people trashing our troops (Torturers, occupiers etc), when was the last time your favorite National news program reported this?......I haven't heard it reported either. We're only allowed to hear the bad things.

I've compiled this from various news sources:

DIPLOMATIC
*47 countries have re-established their embassies in Iraq.
*The Iraqi government regularly participates in international events. Since July the Iraqi government has been represented in over two dozen international meetings, including those of the UN General Assembly, the Arab League, the World Bank and IMF and, today, the Islamic Conference Summit.

GOVERNMENT
*The Iraqi government employs more than 1.2 million Iraqi people.
*We helped build democracy at the grassroots, empowering the many enlightened and talented people of Iraq, men and women, who were repressed and silenced under Ba'athist rule.
*We have built local governments throughout the country, so they can deliver the essential services a modern Iraq needs. Our efforts have resulted in the formation of councils in 16 governates, 78 districts, 192 cities and sub-districts and 392 neighborhoods representing 80 percent of the country's population.
*In Baghdad alone residents have selected 88 advisory councils. Baghdad's first democratic transfer of power in 35 years happened when the city council elected its new chairman.
*Nearly all of Iraq's 400 courts are functioning and the Iraqi judiciary is fully independent
*Foreign journalists aren't on 10-day visas paying mandatory and extortionate fees to the Ministry of Information for minders and other government spies.
*Foreign journalists (and everyone else) are free to come and go.
*There is no Ministry of Information.
*2 candidates in the Iraqi presidential election had a recent televised debate recently.
*The final area of great accomplishment in Iraq has been in fighting corruption. An aggressive training program is fighting corruption in police and security forces, and three institutions are addressing corruption in government.
*The Iraqi Police Service has over 55,000 fully trained and equipped police officers.
*There are 5 Police Academies in Iraq that produce over 3500 new officers each 8 weeks.

*Minority rights is a very sensitive issue in a country that is so torn apart by sectarian and national tensions, which were all exacerbated under (Saddam's) tyranny.
*Shia religious festivals that were all but banned, aren't.
*For the first time in 35 years, in Karbala thousands of Shiites celebrate the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam.
*Uday and Queasy are dead - and no longer feeding innocent Iraqis to the zoo lions, raping the young daughters of local leaders to force cooperation, torturing Iraq's soccer players for losing games, or murdering critics.
*Children aren't imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree with the government.
*Political opponents aren't imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed, or are forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam.
*Millions of longsuffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual terror.
*The threat of the use of WMD is gone.

ECONOMIC
*Iraq now has Open economy and the Baghdad Stock Exchange opened in June of 2004, the first time in 35 years. Specific improvements include free trade, a liberal foreign direct-investment law, and low tax rates.
*They aren't just printing dinars to cover deficits, which is what Saddam did.
*Iraq has a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years.
*An independent central bank for the first time in Iraq's history and a successful currency swap in the middle of a war are the biggest improvements to Iraq's monetary policy.
*95 percent of all prewar bank customers have service and first-time customers are opening accounts daily.

SCHOOLS
*3100 schools have been renovated- 1.400 more than scheduled, 364 schools are under rehabilitation, 263 schools are now under construction and 38 new schools have been built in Iraq.
*All 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open, as are nearly all primary and secondary schools.
*Teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries
*4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in primary school by mid October.
*Iraq's higher educational structure consists of 20 Universities, 46 Institutes or colleges and 4 research centers.
*25 Iraq students departed for the United States in January 2004 for the re-established Fulbright program.

MILITARY
*The Iraqi Navy is operational. They have five 100-foot patrol craft, 34 smaller vessels and a navel infantry regiment.
*Iraq's Air Force consists of three operation squadrons, 9 reconnaissance and 3 US C-130 transport aircraft which operate day and night, and 16 UH-1 helicopters and 4 bell jet rangers.
*The first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active duty. ... over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens
*The Jordanian Army In January [2004] Began Training Iraqi Troops, Officers And Special Operations Units As Part Of A U.S.-Led Iraqi Army Rebuilding Program. More Than 600 Iraqi Soldiers And Officers Have Completed Their Training In Jordan And Are Serving In Iraqi Army Units In Their Homeland
*Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit and a Commando Battalion.

INFESTRUCTURE
The first priorities were water, sanitation, public health, essential services and infrastructure.
*Vast swathes of the country -- particularly in the largely Shia south -- were destitute. No new infrastructure had been built for more than a decade in the south, and very little basic maintenance had been done.
*There are more than 1800 building projects going on in Iraq. 83 railroad stations, 22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities and 69 electrical facilities.
*We helped rehabilitate eight power plants and are installing three new ones. We are also replacing towers, stringing wires, rebuilding lines and installing new generators.
*October 6 power generation hit 4,518 megawatts-exceeding the prewar average
*A Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq's 27,000 kilometers of weed-choked canals which now irrigate tens of thousands of farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and women.

TRANSPORTATION
We have played a key role in restoring Iraq's transport and communication systems.
*Among other things, we have repaired the Baghdad airport and the country's deep-water port.
*We helped rebuild bridges and improved pre-war rail service.

COMMUNICATION
*There are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq and phone use has gone up 158%.
*Iraq has an independent media that consist of 75 radio stations, 180 newspapers and 10 television stations.
*Satellite TV dishes are legal and you can buy one on what seems like every street corner.
*There are more than 170 newspapers.
*We helped completely repair the neglected fiber optic network.

HEALTH
*Child mortality and water-borne disease has dropped sharply as a result of our commitment to repair and rehabilitate the water and sewerage system throughout the whole of the country.
*We are training doctors and nurses and distributing high-protein supplementary food rations to hundreds of thousands of pregnant and nursing mothers.
*96% of Iraqi children under the age of 5 have received the first 2 series of polio vaccinations.
*All 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open.
*Doctors salaries are at least eight times what they were under Saddam
*Pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700 tons in to a current total of over 15,000 tons.
*The Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccinations to Iraq's children.

VICTIMS- REFLECTIONS ON ABUSE
*USAID has also helped uncover mass graves where as many as 400,000 Iraqi victims of Saddam's genocide campaigns lie buried. Hundreds of thousands of others, including untold numbers of children, died from deliberate neglect, indifference and politically motivated deprivation.
*We're helping the Iraqi Human Rights Association inventory the mass murder that took place under Saddam.
*A spokesman of the group put things very well when he said that what Iraq needs most of all is "not technicians and engineers" -- "but someone to rebuild our souls."

-END

With all those accomplishments, shouldn't we thank our troops with a letter or care package?

So much for labeling our troops as torturers, occupiers and now lately baby killers by some.
Did you know the historic WWII battleship USS Iowa isn't even allowed to find its final resting place in the San Francisco bay?
Guess why? They had it towed several miles up stream to get it out of their sight.

Nuts!

Schwa · #2 (**permalink**) 08-24-2005, 10:10 PM

Yup, the invasion and occupation was a real success. Access to the oil has been secured and the critical permanent US military bases have been installed. The whole area has been terrorized into submission so we won't have any more individuals trying to terrorize us.

Hot_Georgia_2004 · #3 (**permalink**) 08-24-2005, 10:43 PM

Oh, come on you can't be serious?
That our soldiers are an invading, occupying force that is there to stay with a mission to terrorize? Diobolical plot for oil access?
I had hoped this could remain a positive thread in support of our troops.

Guess you won't be sending any care packages.

Schwa · #4 (**permalink**) 08-24-2005, 11:29 PM

Ignoring the fact that the occupation has killed thousands upon thousands of innocent people and terrorized the rest of the population seems rather unjust to the people of Iraq. If I made a post highlighting all the good things the Nazi or Chineese troops had done and then saying "So much for labeling those troops as torturers, occupiers and now lately baby killers" would you honestly expect people to take it seriously and remain positive about it? There's a good side to war and there's a bad side to war, just depends where you look and what you choose to see.

If that list of accomplishments makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, good for you! I'm sure that's why Fox etc. makes a point of constantly focusing on that stuff. For me it's not going to justify the incredible expense, the lies, the environmental destruction and the breeding of real terrorists that the war brings with it. I cannot ignore the devastating reality of this war no matter the positive aspects of it.

Hot_Georgia_2004 · #5 (**permalink**) 08-25-2005, 03:13 AM

It's a sad day when some equate our troops to nazis and baby killers.
Don't you think that kind of rhetoric encourages the terrorists of whom we are battling, along with calling them "Freedom" fighters as some people are now doing?
It does illustrate the mindset of a few, and it almost seems as if it is their goal.

US Troops = Terrorists
Insurgents = Freedom fighters
Is there something wrong with that picture?

Did someone skip over my first post?
Why is it that the vast majority of Iraqis are glad we are there and support us?
Why is it that over 80% of our servicemen (And women) are proud of the good work they are doing there? Why are more soldiers re-enlisting so they can go back and continue to make a difference in so many people's lives?

You are right about good and bad perspectives of war.
For example you could focus only on the fact that hundreds of thousands of lives were lost and millions of people displaced from their homes as we crossed Europe and exploded "The bombs" on Japan in the 1940's.
Were we evil terrorist occupiers then as well?
Personally I choose the brighter side of things and living here in the East still speak English, not german, and our children are not slaves to a "Superior race".

Back to Iraq,
Isn't the individual and organization who explodes a bomb in a crowded market who kills a serviceman, along with several women and children the terrorist?
Or is it the soldier posted there for security?

A while back I heard about a soldier passing out candy to Iraqi children as they usually do, when a car drove by and tossed a grenade.
The soldier wasn't terrorizing the children, but he certainly was a threat to the person who tossed the bomb.
Would it be better the grenade tosser be in authority, as they used to be?

In another instance is the homocide bomber a terrorist or is it the person in authority who drives the bus? Many of those bombers were on Saddam's payroll

I've rarely seen any news reported from Iraq other than daily death and destruction from any major network and you are right- there seems to be a boycot of any good news.

Civic Duty · #6 (**permalink**) 08-25-2005, 05:11 AM

I remember the days when MTV was actually "Music Television". I hope to never have to remember the days when GreenHybrid.com was actually about "Hybrids", instead of non-related issues. Political/war forums abound elsewhere on the Web.

Schwa · #7 (**permalink**) 08-25-2005, 05:12 AM

You have your own ideas about what's going on over there and how people feel about it, so there's no point in trying to explain the other perspective since you obviously reject it as false and unjustified. I understand your perspective but I disagree with it.

Let's just say that I would be more moved to send care packages to the people of Iraq who lost their families to the violence of war than to military personnel that dropped the bombs on those families. I'm not equating US troops with Nazi troops, you missed the point of that entirely. I was trying to give you an idea as to how your post comes across to people with a different perspective on the situation. I have nothing against the individual troops doing what they are doing, they are just following orders and protecting themselves as they should. I'm bothered by the the overall military strategy and reasoning that got us into this mess and how it's been handled at the highest levels. No matter the good that comes out of the aftermath of a war, the horrors of the war are no less real and deserve to be remembered as such.

If you want no alternative perspective on the situation, post this to a site like capitalism.org.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Civic Duty

I remember the days when MTV was actually "Music Television". I hope to never have to remember the days when GreenHybrid.com was actually about "Hybrids", instead of non-related issues. Political/war forums abound elsewhere on the Web.

Agreed. There's no need for this here.

Delta Flyer · #8 (**permalink**) 08-25-2005, 05:30 AM

For whatever my opinion is worth, I supported military action to end Saddam's regime weather or not he had weapons of mass destruction. I was very concerned with the cavilier attitude of how easy the occupation would be. Many of the captured Iraqi soldiers let go are probably the insurgents fighting now. I heard talk show hosts such as Sean Hannety in 2003 talk as if the Iraqi's are born American-style venture capitialists that would transform their country in a couple of years - our troups would be home by now.

I favor stabilizing Iraq, getting out as quietly as possible, and avoiding a similar action for awhile. Such wars drained the British Empire, and will do the same to the US unless our government chooses their battles more carefully.

Those likening the US government as Nazis are just over the top - the fact they are free to vent such nonsense proves it's untrue. Yes, there are very strong feelings against military action (and it's their right to express them) - but it was not by "The Fourth Reich"

.

I'm also concerned with the insensitivities such as Abu Girab - this is a PR war too.

People on polar ends of this issue probably don't care for this point of view - the invasion was a necessary evil, stabilize a very difficult situation quietly and with more sensitivity, and don't repeat this again for a long time.

....and put more effort developing alternative fuels.

P.S. I better cool it - this is a very passionate topic. I understand if this post gets deleted....

Delta Flyer · #9 (**permalink**) 08-25-2005, 06:13 AM

Again, I want to express my intention to stick a little more closely to hybrid discussion and less about topics this thread covers.

A really nice forum was ruined after 9/11 when some rants were allowed to overwhelm the on-topic discussions. I want to thank Jason for allowing us to have a wide range of expression at www.greenhybrid.com, but don't want to push the envelope and turn the atmosphere disruptive here.

EricGo · #10 (**permalink**) 08-25-2005, 07:17 AM

Hot_Georgia, please consider asking Jason to delete this thread.

You may wish to understand your 'upbeat, optimistic' post is only nauseating propaganda to me. I won't respond to it, but I do prefer that GreenHybrid not be a stage for it.