I cringe everytime someone uses the terms "series" or "parallel" hybrid and I don't much care for the terms "mild" and "full" hybrid either. None of the forementioned terms has any useful purpose. No one fully agrees as to what the terms mean so useing them is like using a random word that means next to nothing. The series and parallel terms are completely confusing and meaningless. The mild and full terms are used to describe IMA and HSD and imply that HSD is somehow better because it is "full". Pure hogwash.

Even worse, GM claiming they have a Silverado hybrid.

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

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www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

For sure!

IMO a vehicle should not be able to be called a hybrid unless it has at least 2 different sources of power for moving the vehicle. Auto stop is cool and replacing both the starter and alternator with a BAS or FAS is also cool but a BAS/FAS equiped vehicle is not a hybrid unless the BAS/FAS actually pushes the vehicle in a meaningful way.

Well, to the person who actually takes the time to research the meanings, I'd posit that they have meaning - moreso than 'full' / 'mild' (why does salsa suddenly come to mind ? LOL)

Be happy the terms 'real' / 'fake' don't come into play (w/ regard to HSD vs IMA - we won't even go into BAS/FAS systems). Then, *I'd* be cheesed off, given what I can do with the Civic (last couple of weeks, I've been getting low- / mid-60's on my 20.8mi work commute - yes, you read that right, and I don't use extreme techniques like FAS or P&G, either).

Of course, us IMA owners could start using our own terms ? Something like "The one that kinda performs as advertised" vs. "the one that exceeds expectations" ?

Mark

Sometimes we could all use a little less

My hybrid automobiles:

Current:
2006 Honda Civic Hybrid (CVT, w/o Nav)
Magnetic Pearl / Blue - 008661, born 12/28/05
Mods: Neck pillows, Garmin C330 Nav, Draw-tite 1.25" hitch (for bikes, not towing!), Pioneer Inno XM receiver via Aux jack, OEM mud flaps, more to come!

Hypermiler status on 3/12/06 @ 3077mi.

Previous:
2005 Honda Accord Hybrid (5AT/Navi)
Desert Mist / Ivory - 001254
Retired 1/21/06 - LMPG 34.1

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The terms have no meaning that anybody actually agrees on. We have already had discussions and no conclusion was ever drawn. If I recall the talks went something like this:

Anyway it seems to me that wiki has it right and that both IMA and HSD are parallel while the subs and trains are series. Since both types of consumer hybrids are parallel the term has no place in a comparison yet some still try to put the series label on one car or another.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_vehicle#Series

I'm irked by people who insist that it's not a hybrid, but a stored gas powered vehicle, since the gas engine provides charge, either directly or through the initial momentum that the regenerative breaking system gains power from, that when you boil it down, it's just two forms of gas power.

First 4WD Hypermiler

Have you read the FEH FAQ?

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Read My Automotive Blog at Rich Rambles

It is real simple:

- Is the city MPG higher than the highway MPG?

Physics tells us that city driving avoids air drag and an efficient vehicle recovers braking energy and avoids energy loss at stops. The 'details of implementation' are interesting but not if the city MPG is worse than highway MPG.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
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Well, it may be time to scrap the terms, but I think it is important, before we send them off to the grammatical graveyard, that we at least write them a proper eulogy and recognize where they came from.

I still like the report published in 2003 by the Union of Concerned Scientists.

http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documen...2003_final.pdf

I don't believe that this report coined any of the terms, but it does do a fair job of defining them. The report is lengthy, and IMO repeats itself way too much, and it is dated and it uses existing technology (in 2003) to help define terms. But still does a decent job of defining them.

The only term, I believe, that has become murky to date is the term "full hybrid", since it defines its differentiating characteristic as "drive using only electric power". Honda's HCHII threw a wrench in the works by allowing the car to drive using only electric power, but with the ICE still turning. I don't think the writer of the report foresaw this development. As other developments occur, the terms will likely become more murky. But they are still somewhat important in that people need definitions in order to discuss (or argue) the finer points.

So, from the report:

See Table ES-1 and the supporting verbiage around it. This table differentiates:
Conventional Vehicle, Muscle Hybrid, Mild Hybrid, Full Hybrid, Plug-in Hybrid.

Figures 4-8 define:
Series Hybrid, Parallel Hybrid, Split-Parallel Hybrid, Toyota Series - Parallel Hybrid, and Basic Series-Parallel Hybrid drivetrains.

Note that it defines the HCH I and the Insight as a parallel hybrid (the HCH II didn't exist when it was written). This may be surprising to some, because I believe there is a popular misconception that since the engine, motor and transmission are all linked together in a line, or "series" in the HCH, that it is a series hybrid. However, a series hybrid is defined asa vehicle where "an electric motor is the only means of driving the wheels. The motor obtains electricity either from a battery pack or from a generator powered by an engine in much the same was as a portable generator." So, in other words, an EV with an ICE onboard who's only purpose is to recharge the batteries.

The report defines the Prius (and I would inject the FEH) as a type of series/parallel drivetrain, indicating that "The Toyota Prius made popular a new concept that combines many of the advantages of the parallel drivetrain with the series drivetrain's ability to maintain engine operation near its most efficient operating point."

My point in this diatribe is that the terms DO mean something, and they DO serve a purpose. But as the technology develops, the terminology will blur and new terms will need to be developed to replace many of these, or at least enhance them.

The terms Gen "X" IMA or HSD are far more useful and specific IMO.

Personally, I think EVERY conventional vehicle should be upgraded to BAS/FAS. I think the term "Intelligent Start Stop" would be a better term for this type of system than "Hybrid".

And why not? if it adds 3-4 MPG for under $1000 in hardware and reduces emissions, you'd think every car manufacturer would want it. The other perk of BAS-FAS is being able to furnish a couple of standard power outlets (for laptops or power tools). It would be a great improvement on the conventional vehicle.

I just wouldn't call it a Hybrid.