Does PAT system (chip key) work?
#11
05-06-2005, 11:31 AM
Re: Does PAT system (chip key) work?
Originally Posted by cdbrow1
I think the answer from Ford will be something along the lines of "was on it on the windows sticker?" If it was and it doesn't work then you have an issue. It was wasn't, but it was in the manaual than you just have a baddly printed manual. Adversiting is irrlevent because they always have that fine print (specs may change).
IANAL but, IMHO, this constitutes a verbal contract ... and if the car does NOT have the function described, then they are in violation of that contract.
Of course, I could be wrong.
david
#12
05-06-2005, 11:43 AM
Re: Does PAT system (chip key) work?
It sounds like the real issue is with the Dealers not knowing the features of what they are selling......
I think they gave me the whole "don't loose your keys" speach too, but since I used to sell cars I know that 95% of what they say is BS.
As a group dealers and salesmen are not to be trusted, esp. when they are selling something new or different.
You might have a claim agaist the dealers, but I don't think Ford did anything wrong.
Chris
I think they gave me the whole "don't loose your keys" speach too, but since I used to sell cars I know that 95% of what they say is BS.
As a group dealers and salesmen are not to be trusted, esp. when they are selling something new or different.
You might have a claim agaist the dealers, but I don't think Ford did anything wrong.
Chris
#13
05-06-2005, 01:59 PM
Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA (Near Palm Springs)
Posts: 245
Re: Does PAT system (chip key) work?
I have a reply from Ford regarding not having the Passive Anti-Theft
System (PATS) active on the 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid:
"The PATS is not on 2005 (you know this already) but it will be standard
on the 2006 vehicle. While the physical hardware is on the 2005
vehicle, the system is not set up to receive a software update that
would make it functional. It would require some extensive testing to
allow us to do that.
The perimeter alarm is operational in 2005, but I'm not surprised that
a quality cut key will still get you in the car. A perimeter alarm
won't do anything with a key that fits.
Hope that helps."
System (PATS) active on the 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid:
"The PATS is not on 2005 (you know this already) but it will be standard
on the 2006 vehicle. While the physical hardware is on the 2005
vehicle, the system is not set up to receive a software update that
would make it functional. It would require some extensive testing to
allow us to do that.
The perimeter alarm is operational in 2005, but I'm not surprised that
a quality cut key will still get you in the car. A perimeter alarm
won't do anything with a key that fits.
Hope that helps."
#14
05-06-2005, 03:07 PM
Re: Does PAT system (chip key) work?
Thanks Mike for the update. You must be a good teacher to understand the facts as you do.
I take it that Sdctcher means San Diego County Teacher.
BTW I was very concerned that my FEH did not have the PAT. I feel that if the 2006 model has it, very few car thefts will mess with our 2005 FEH model. At least we can get cheaper keys made.
I'm here to be proud of saving gas and lowering polution. I love my FEH over my Ford Explorer which is for towing my boat now. Can't wait till we get a hybrid outboard motor. It would be perfect for trolling on elec. and gas for running. Hey, maybe I've come on to something here.
I got all the factory workshop manuals to save on repairs and maintenance but I can also look up issues others are having on this forum. This is a good Website!
I take it that Sdctcher means San Diego County Teacher.
BTW I was very concerned that my FEH did not have the PAT. I feel that if the 2006 model has it, very few car thefts will mess with our 2005 FEH model. At least we can get cheaper keys made.
I'm here to be proud of saving gas and lowering polution. I love my FEH over my Ford Explorer which is for towing my boat now. Can't wait till we get a hybrid outboard motor. It would be perfect for trolling on elec. and gas for running. Hey, maybe I've come on to something here.
I got all the factory workshop manuals to save on repairs and maintenance but I can also look up issues others are having on this forum. This is a good Website!
#15
05-06-2005, 04:32 PM
Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA (Near Palm Springs)
Posts: 245
Re: Does PAT system (chip key) work?
Actually, I am a special education teacher by training and Masters Degree. In California we are known as "Special Day Class" teachers.
I really believe that Ford will find a way to make our 2005's take the software update to make the PATS functional. It will just take a little time. At the moment the engineers are up to their eyeballs in trying to get the 2006s on their way to us.
But if they don't after a while we should begin writing letters and sending petitions. Calls to our dealers might also help.
Mike
I really believe that Ford will find a way to make our 2005's take the software update to make the PATS functional. It will just take a little time. At the moment the engineers are up to their eyeballs in trying to get the 2006s on their way to us.
But if they don't after a while we should begin writing letters and sending petitions. Calls to our dealers might also help.
Mike
#16
05-06-2005, 04:34 PM
Re: Does PAT system (chip key) work?
Originally Posted by sdctcher
Calls to our dealers might also help.
My dealer hasn't responded to a single request I've made yet.
Kind of pissing me off.
david
#17
05-06-2005, 11:28 PM
Re: Does PAT system (chip key) work?
At the very least we can get our dealers to stop ripping off unknowing customers who pay $50-$100 for a replacement key. After reading around these forums, I made a joke about the worthless chip keys on the day that I picked up my FEH...and the salesman was shocked. I bet we'd be hard pressed to find a dealer that does know this information.
Also, a fix from Ford might be nice considering that we are probably their biggest advertisers/salespeople. I have at least 2-3 friends seriously considering an FEH after seeing how cool mine is.
Also, a fix from Ford might be nice considering that we are probably their biggest advertisers/salespeople. I have at least 2-3 friends seriously considering an FEH after seeing how cool mine is.
#18
05-07-2005, 06:26 AM
Re: Does PAT system (chip key) work?
Originally Posted by sdctcher
I have a reply from Ford regarding not having the Passive Anti-Theft
System (PATS) active on the 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid:
"The PATS is not on 2005 (you know this already) but it will be standard
on the 2006 vehicle. While the physical hardware is on the 2005
vehicle, the system is not set up to receive a software update that
would make it functional. It would require some extensive testing to
allow us to do that......."
System (PATS) active on the 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid:
"The PATS is not on 2005 (you know this already) but it will be standard
on the 2006 vehicle. While the physical hardware is on the 2005
vehicle, the system is not set up to receive a software update that
would make it functional. It would require some extensive testing to
allow us to do that......."
#19
05-07-2005, 07:42 AM
Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA (Near Palm Springs)
Posts: 245
Re: Does PAT system (chip key) work?
Yes Indeed. We need to keep getting a list of people who think having PATS in 2005 but not being able to use it is not fair to those of us who took an early chance on a new vehicle. I just think the Ford Engineering Team needs more time to fix this.
#20
05-14-2005, 11:21 AM
Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA (Near Palm Springs)
Posts: 245
Re: Does PAT system (chip key) work?
Last month we had quite a discussion about how the Passive Anti-Theft System on the 2005 is installed but does not work. This means the expensive chips you have or have bought in your keys are about as good as chips and dips. I sent an inquiry to Ford Customer Service about two weeks ago knowing I would probably not get a good reply since my previous attempts just sent me to Ask Kate (Bless Her Heart). This time I did get a reply (after twelve days). I reprint it below for your chuckles. After a few days I sent another request for information to Ford Marketing and got a reply the same day that confirmed the system would not work until new hardware and software is installed some time in the future. I just got back from town with my new $1.49 key and it works great! Gets me in without the Perimeter Alarm sounding and also I can drive away. I did write back to Ford and suggested they may want to alert the dealers out there who are selling the $100 keys and telling customers they have a working alarm system that they should get ahold of their customers and make refunds before those customers sue them.
Mike
Mike
Date: 13 May 2005 14:45:17 -0400
From: crcfmc@ford.com
Subject: RE: AskKate2005 / Ford / Escape hybrid Vehicle Problems
To: sdctcher@yahoo.com
Dear <Customer>,
Thank you for contacting the Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship
Center regarding <Insert Issue>.
In an effort to assist, we have tried to contact you at the telephone
number <you provided/listed in your customer profile> on <INSERT DATE OF
CALL> at <INSERT TIME OF CALL> Eastern Standard Time (EST).
Unfortunately, we have been unsuccessful in trying to speak with you.
Please feel free to contact the Customer Relationship Center at your
convenience, where any representative would be glad to assist you. We
can be contacted toll free at 1-800-392-3673, Monday through Friday
between the hours of 8AM and 5PM. Hearing impaired callers with access to a
TDD may reach us by calling 1-800-232-5952.
We consider the satisfaction of our customers one of our most important
objectives. If you have any other inquiries or concerns, please feel
free to contact us and we will be happy to address them for you.
Sincerely,
Sonia
Customer Relationship Center
Ford Motor Company
-----Original Message-----
From: sdctcher@yahoo.com
Sent: 5/1/2005 08:44:04 PM
To: <crcfmc@ford.com>
Cc: <askkate@ford.com>
Subject: AskKate2005 / Ford / Escape hybrid Vehicle Problems
sdctcher@yahoo.com
Vehicle Owner: Yes
Telephone Number: 760-xxx-xxxx
Model Year: 2005
Brand: Ford
Model: Escape hybrid
VIN Number: 1FMYU96H65KCxxxxx
Mileage: 9803
Category of Query/Concern:
Vehicle Problems
Description of Issue/Concern:
I was able to have a cheap ignition key made at my hardware store and use it to access and drive my car without an alarm sounding.I was under the impression that my car had the PATS system in addition to the Perimeter Alarm. According to page 109 of my Owner's Manual "using a non-programmed key will not permit your car to start". This is not true.
My dealer charged me over $100 for a chip key that works the same as my
$1.49 hardware store key. What is going on here?
From: crcfmc@ford.com
Subject: RE: AskKate2005 / Ford / Escape hybrid Vehicle Problems
To: sdctcher@yahoo.com
Dear <Customer>,
Thank you for contacting the Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship
Center regarding <Insert Issue>.
In an effort to assist, we have tried to contact you at the telephone
number <you provided/listed in your customer profile> on <INSERT DATE OF
CALL> at <INSERT TIME OF CALL> Eastern Standard Time (EST).
Unfortunately, we have been unsuccessful in trying to speak with you.
Please feel free to contact the Customer Relationship Center at your
convenience, where any representative would be glad to assist you. We
can be contacted toll free at 1-800-392-3673, Monday through Friday
between the hours of 8AM and 5PM. Hearing impaired callers with access to a
TDD may reach us by calling 1-800-232-5952.
We consider the satisfaction of our customers one of our most important
objectives. If you have any other inquiries or concerns, please feel
free to contact us and we will be happy to address them for you.
Sincerely,
Sonia
Customer Relationship Center
Ford Motor Company
-----Original Message-----
From: sdctcher@yahoo.com
Sent: 5/1/2005 08:44:04 PM
To: <crcfmc@ford.com>
Cc: <askkate@ford.com>
Subject: AskKate2005 / Ford / Escape hybrid Vehicle Problems
sdctcher@yahoo.com
Vehicle Owner: Yes
Telephone Number: 760-xxx-xxxx
Model Year: 2005
Brand: Ford
Model: Escape hybrid
VIN Number: 1FMYU96H65KCxxxxx
Mileage: 9803
Category of Query/Concern:
Vehicle Problems
Description of Issue/Concern:
I was able to have a cheap ignition key made at my hardware store and use it to access and drive my car without an alarm sounding.I was under the impression that my car had the PATS system in addition to the Perimeter Alarm. According to page 109 of my Owner's Manual "using a non-programmed key will not permit your car to start". This is not true.
My dealer charged me over $100 for a chip key that works the same as my
$1.49 hardware store key. What is going on here?
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