"Service Emission Sys" at 2600 miles!
#11
12-15-2006, 07:20 PM
Re: "Service Emission Sys" at 2600 miles!
***** Update: We got the FEH back! I talked to the technician who worked on it and he gave me the diagnosis. Apparently there's an O2 sensor and some type of monitor sensor (exhaust temp?) that thread into different places on the stock exhaust manifold. He said these were switched (reversed) from the factory, and one of them was damaged from excess heat. He seemed surprised that the car made it 2600 miles before the "check engine" light came on.
As someone surmised earlier, the sensor threads in the manifold were damaged. I didn't push too hard to find out if this was another factory defect or if it was caused during this service. Several people were listening to our conversation and I didn't want to put the tech on the spot. Either way, it was an expensive mistake, as the factory manifold and catalytic converter are one piece and had to be replaced!
The end result: the manifold/cat and the O2 sensor were replaced under warranty. I didn't enjoy waiting for parts, but was very satisified with the service. The tech said he hasn't seen this problem before. This was also his first hybrid brought in for repair. Not confidence inspiring, but he seems like a competent dude. My dealership doesn't sell many hybrids, but its good to know FEHs aren't having lots of problems requiring warranty service.
Wait, one complaint- this tank average was only 28.4 mpg! That hurts my average! Dangit!!
As someone surmised earlier, the sensor threads in the manifold were damaged. I didn't push too hard to find out if this was another factory defect or if it was caused during this service. Several people were listening to our conversation and I didn't want to put the tech on the spot. Either way, it was an expensive mistake, as the factory manifold and catalytic converter are one piece and had to be replaced!
The end result: the manifold/cat and the O2 sensor were replaced under warranty. I didn't enjoy waiting for parts, but was very satisified with the service. The tech said he hasn't seen this problem before. This was also his first hybrid brought in for repair. Not confidence inspiring, but he seems like a competent dude. My dealership doesn't sell many hybrids, but its good to know FEHs aren't having lots of problems requiring warranty service.
Wait, one complaint- this tank average was only 28.4 mpg! That hurts my average! Dangit!!
It was me who said the tech stripped the threads. Good luck with everything else!
GaryG
#12
12-16-2006, 07:55 AM
Re: "Service Emission Sys" at 2600 miles!
I don't see how anyone here can say with any degree of certainty whatsoever whether it was the tech or the factory.
#13
12-16-2006, 03:34 PM
Re: "Service Emission Sys" at 2600 miles!
Just out of curiousity, how can anyone blame the tech and not the factory without having 1) watched the tech perform the repair or 2) seen the damaged parts?
I don't see how anyone here can say with any degree of certainty whatsoever whether it was the tech or the factory.
I don't see how anyone here can say with any degree of certainty whatsoever whether it was the tech or the factory.
Whether it was the Tech's fault, the part, or the factory's installation, I stated it sounds like the tech stripped the thread removing or installing the O2 sensor on the manifold. After all, he brought the vehicle in for a trouble code, not a exhaust leak.
If you have a problem with what I say, sorry, just don't read my posts anymore if that will help.
GaryG
#14
12-17-2006, 07:07 AM
Re: "Service Emission Sys" at 2600 miles!
You again!
Whether it was the Tech's fault, the part, or the factory's installation, I stated it sounds like the tech stripped the thread removing or installing the O2 sensor on the manifold. After all, he brought the vehicle in for a trouble code, not a exhaust leak.
If you have a problem with what I say, sorry, just don't read my posts anymore if that will help.
GaryG
Whether it was the Tech's fault, the part, or the factory's installation, I stated it sounds like the tech stripped the thread removing or installing the O2 sensor on the manifold. After all, he brought the vehicle in for a trouble code, not a exhaust leak.
If you have a problem with what I say, sorry, just don't read my posts anymore if that will help.
GaryG
He may be right though.... if the sensors were put into each others locations at the factory and they are threaded different, the damage may have been done at the factory. Its a possibility. Of course what you said is possible too.
#15
12-17-2006, 07:18 AM
Re: "Service Emission Sys" at 2600 miles!
Based on the facts available there is no way of accurately identifying the cause of the stripped threads. At at this point all anyone can offer up is strictly a wild guess or an opinion...and nothing more.
#16
12-17-2006, 08:37 AM
Re: "Service Emission Sys" at 2600 miles!
Cross threading could have started at the factory with a defective part or not. This is why I stated the tech either damage the treads taking the sensor out, or putting one in. Bottomline, the sensor worked for ~2,600 miles fine because there were no other codes for it prior.
In my original post, I used the words "sounds like" (opinion) that someone wants to make an issue with.
GaryG
#17
12-19-2006, 04:29 AM
Re: "Service Emission Sys" at 2600 miles!
GaryG, please don't take this out of context since it's meant to be informative and not as a criticism.
Your statement about the 3 HEGO system is true for the 2005 FEH, but only the 2005 model. The 2006 and 2007 models appear to have changed over to a conventional 2 HEGO system. The source of my data: Ford's PCED (Powertrain Control and Emission Diagnosis manual and their EVTM (Electrical/Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual) for the 2005-2007 model years.
Your statement about the 3 HEGO system is true for the 2005 FEH, but only the 2005 model. The 2006 and 2007 models appear to have changed over to a conventional 2 HEGO system. The source of my data: Ford's PCED (Powertrain Control and Emission Diagnosis manual and their EVTM (Electrical/Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual) for the 2005-2007 model years.
#18
12-20-2006, 08:07 PM
Re: "Service Emission Sys" at 2600 miles!
I have worked as a drivability tech. for Ford for many years, so I feel have some insight on the situation here. First both the exhaust manifold and the HEGO are made of stainless steel, also the HEGO comes with zinc anti-seize on the threads from the factory so there is no reason for the HEGO to corrode and strip the threads, having said that I wish I had a dollar for every HEGO that just sat there and spun after loosing the skin on my knuckles trying to break it free! This is of no fault of my owen, so lets cut the tech. some slack ^%it happens! Also HEGOS raley fail nowdays (not like they did 20 years ago atleast) I could count on one hand the number of defective HEGOS I have replaced in my last 5 years working as a tech. in fact most if not all the HEGOS I've seen stripped, are from removing them for access or to transfer them to a new part, in other words I've replaced many more defective exhaust manifolds then O2 sensors.
#19
12-20-2006, 09:05 PM
Re: "Service Emission Sys" at 2600 miles!
I have worked as a drivability tech. for Ford for many years, so I feel have some insight on the situation here. First both the exhaust manifold and the HEGO are made of stainless steel, also the HEGO comes with zinc anti-seize on the threads from the factory so there is no reason for the HEGO to corrode and strip the threads, having said that I wish I had a dollar for every HEGO that just sat there and spun after loosing the skin on my knuckles trying to break it free! This is of no fault of my owen, so lets cut the tech. some slack ^%it happens! Also HEGOS raley fail nowdays (not like they did 20 years ago atleast) I could count on one hand the number of defective HEGOS I have replaced in my last 5 years working as a tech. in fact most if not all the HEGOS I've seen stripped, are from removing them for access or to transfer them to a new part, in other words I've replaced many more defective exhaust manifolds then O2 sensors.
The cause of replacing the manifold was the threads may have been stripped. You make a good point. This may have been the reason the hybrid tech that worked on my FEH said he got a code from my HO2S on my FEH, but choose to reset till the problem cleared. He must have knew that replacing the sensor had it's risk like you, and the sensors rarely go bad now. Things are working good with my FEH now with no codes at this point.
GaryG
#20
12-21-2006, 04:39 PM
Re: "Service Emission Sys" at 2600 miles!
***** I got the work order with a desription of the services performed via mail today. Electronbob, here are the DTCs you asked about.
"Perform PCM test. P0171 and P1131. Perform PID monitor and roadtest to verify lean condition. Found Bank 1 HEGO not switching. Monitor fuel pressure on roadtest. Pressure is ok. Check connections to HEGO sensor. Found Bank 1 HEGO sensor installed into the catalyst monitor side of converter and the monitor sensor is installed into the HEGO sensor position. Try to swap but sensors are seized in manifold and converter assy. Replace exhaust manifold and converter assy. Replace Bank 1 HEGO sensor and catalyst monitor sensor. Replace attaching gaskets. Recheck HEGO activity on roadtest."
Just out of curiosity, anyone know what these two DTCs mean?
"Perform PCM test. P0171 and P1131. Perform PID monitor and roadtest to verify lean condition. Found Bank 1 HEGO not switching. Monitor fuel pressure on roadtest. Pressure is ok. Check connections to HEGO sensor. Found Bank 1 HEGO sensor installed into the catalyst monitor side of converter and the monitor sensor is installed into the HEGO sensor position. Try to swap but sensors are seized in manifold and converter assy. Replace exhaust manifold and converter assy. Replace Bank 1 HEGO sensor and catalyst monitor sensor. Replace attaching gaskets. Recheck HEGO activity on roadtest."
Just out of curiosity, anyone know what these two DTCs mean?
