Use of engine block heater away from the electrical outlet
#21
11-29-2007, 07:50 PM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: Use of engine block heater away from the electrical outlet
The trouble is, there is hardly any clearance in the front.
You need something like mini-blinds, or thinner.
Billy, you and I had the same thought at the same instant.
Just I turned to look at T.V. and you hit send quicker.
You need something like mini-blinds, or thinner.
Billy, you and I had the same thought at the same instant.
Just I turned to look at T.V. and you hit send quicker.
#22
12-04-2007, 12:07 AM
Re: Use of engine block heater away from the electrical outlet
What is the purpose here?
I think ideas are getting out of hand.
The purpose is to make your car more efficient, not worse.
This only works if you plug into grid power.
Plugging one part of a car into another is working backwards, against you.
And if it is cold enough for your engine to benefit from a block heater, then it is also cold enough for your 12v battery(s) to be weak to begin with, and you really shouldn't be putting more stress on them in the first place.
A block heater is a good idea IF the electricity costs less than the gasoline it displaces. ( or if the electricity is wind power, etc. )
For example, I spend 10 cents on electricity from my home to get my car to 100 degrees. Right now, it will take 25 cents of gasoline to warm my car to 100 degrees. Thus, each morning, I can save a whopping 15 cents.
If the price of electricity goes up, and/or the price of gas goes down, before long, a block heater from the grid does not even make sense.
There is not much "margin" as it is.
Why spend $100's on elaborate methods to warm your car?
As it is, it will take about 700 days to "break even" with the most efficient method: House Plug.
I think ideas are getting out of hand.
The purpose is to make your car more efficient, not worse.
This only works if you plug into grid power.
Plugging one part of a car into another is working backwards, against you.
And if it is cold enough for your engine to benefit from a block heater, then it is also cold enough for your 12v battery(s) to be weak to begin with, and you really shouldn't be putting more stress on them in the first place.
A block heater is a good idea IF the electricity costs less than the gasoline it displaces. ( or if the electricity is wind power, etc. )
For example, I spend 10 cents on electricity from my home to get my car to 100 degrees. Right now, it will take 25 cents of gasoline to warm my car to 100 degrees. Thus, each morning, I can save a whopping 15 cents.
If the price of electricity goes up, and/or the price of gas goes down, before long, a block heater from the grid does not even make sense.
There is not much "margin" as it is.
Why spend $100's on elaborate methods to warm your car?
As it is, it will take about 700 days to "break even" with the most efficient method: House Plug.
#23
12-04-2007, 06:40 AM
Re: Use of engine block heater away from the electrical outlet
The whole idea scares me in some ways though
If Ford wanted to maximize MPG on this thing you'd think they should have set it up so that it could vary the amount of coolant sent to the radiator depending on the coolant temp... and then use computer controls to mix the "cooled" coolant and hot coolant together after the radiator.... then you could optimize the coolant and engine temperature. It would take some work.. but it certainly doesn't seem any more difficult than the rest of the hybrid system.
#24
12-04-2007, 11:40 AM
Re: Use of engine block heater away from the electrical outlet
If you are going to go that far (blinds).... why not just put two selonoid valves on either side of the radiator and hook up a bypass.... no water into the radiator.... no heat lost in the radiator...
The whole idea scares me in some ways though
If Ford wanted to maximize MPG on this thing you'd think they should have set it up so that it could vary the amount of coolant sent to the radiator depending on the coolant temp... and then use computer controls to mix the "cooled" coolant and hot coolant together after the radiator.... then you could optimize the coolant and engine temperature. It would take some work.. but it certainly doesn't seem any more difficult than the rest of the hybrid system.
The whole idea scares me in some ways though
If Ford wanted to maximize MPG on this thing you'd think they should have set it up so that it could vary the amount of coolant sent to the radiator depending on the coolant temp... and then use computer controls to mix the "cooled" coolant and hot coolant together after the radiator.... then you could optimize the coolant and engine temperature. It would take some work.. but it certainly doesn't seem any more difficult than the rest of the hybrid system.
#25
12-04-2007, 09:52 PM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: Use of engine block heater away from the electrical outlet
You are correct.
The FEH is supposed to have a 190'F thermostat.
And the electric radiator fans only spin when needed, but normally always spin when the defrost is on, since that is linked to the A/C and A/C turns the fans on ( in a 2005 ) if the car is warm, or cold.
Just cold air from the car in motion removes a lot of heat also..
The FEH is supposed to have a 190'F thermostat.
And the electric radiator fans only spin when needed, but normally always spin when the defrost is on, since that is linked to the A/C and A/C turns the fans on ( in a 2005 ) if the car is warm, or cold.
Just cold air from the car in motion removes a lot of heat also..
#26
12-05-2007, 03:48 AM
Re: Use of engine block heater away from the electrical outlet
"Doesn't the FEH have a thermostat that does this already?"
Thermostats testrict the flow of coolant. If coolant flow is completely blocked, the engine will develop hot spots causing premature engine failure. The bypass arrangement mentioned by Teester is better. Especially if you can regulate the solenoids to hold a constant coolant temperature in the block circuit. A three way modulating valve would be even better!
Thermostats testrict the flow of coolant. If coolant flow is completely blocked, the engine will develop hot spots causing premature engine failure. The bypass arrangement mentioned by Teester is better. Especially if you can regulate the solenoids to hold a constant coolant temperature in the block circuit. A three way modulating valve would be even better!
#27
12-05-2007, 06:25 AM
Re: Use of engine block heater away from the electrical outlet
"Doesn't the FEH have a thermostat that does this already?"
Thermostats testrict the flow of coolant. If coolant flow is completely blocked, the engine will develop hot spots causing premature engine failure. The bypass arrangement mentioned by Teester is better. Especially if you can regulate the solenoids to hold a constant coolant temperature in the block circuit. A three way modulating valve would be even better!
Thermostats testrict the flow of coolant. If coolant flow is completely blocked, the engine will develop hot spots causing premature engine failure. The bypass arrangement mentioned by Teester is better. Especially if you can regulate the solenoids to hold a constant coolant temperature in the block circuit. A three way modulating valve would be even better!
#28
12-05-2007, 07:45 AM
Re: Use of engine block heater away from the electrical outlet
Cars used to have a bypass in th t'stat so it would not close 100%. It sounds like that is older technology. Is the constant recirculation through the heater core?
#29
12-05-2007, 10:05 AM
Re: Use of engine block heater away from the electrical outlet
I'm fairly certain the heater core is part of the circuit on the FEH. In a typical non hybrid, it is.
#30
12-05-2007, 10:28 AM
Re: Use of engine block heater away from the electrical outlet
Every thermostat I've seen has a bypass but it is smaller than the tip of a pencil...it has a small little bearing in there that prevents reverse flow. It seems to me it's only a safety thing in the event the thermostat seizes up.
