Can I Install Newer Factory Head Unit in 2008 FEH?

  #11  
Old 02-11-2016, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Can I Install Newer Factory Head Unit in 2008 FEH?

Originally Posted by elborak
If you get a HU that supports the iDatalink interface, you can pick up a Maestro and retain the use of SYNC.

Whether it's worth it or not depends on how much you would expect to keep using SYNC vs. just switching over to Android Auto (or the Apple equivalent).
Ah, a whole new world of things to figure out. Maestro/iDatalink has a very helpful and comprehensive website. Except for displaying the hybrid info, which they don't seem to consider.

Something else on the wish list is ADAS, Advanced Driver Assistance System. Either I-onroad, which could be included either just on the smartphone or copied to the HU's screen, or a Mobileye, which works a lot better and could also be copied from the phone to the HU.
 
  #12  
Old 02-13-2016, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: Can I Install Newer Factory Head Unit in 2008 FEH?

Ok, I've done research for a few days. Immersed and drowning in a sea of Maestro/iDatalink, Android Auto, CarPlay, Mirrorlink, Pioneer Appradio, HDMI etc.

Definitely if you have a robust cell phone data plan and want to do all sorts of things such as watch movies in the car, an aftermarket system is the clear winner over an oem nav system. Because you can get nav units that can control the phone, and display many things that are running on the phone. Smartphones are much more clever and versatile than car navigation systems, so if you want or need to use the phone for the "brains" of the nav unit, then that's the answer. The choice would also be different if you had an FEH without Bluetooth and the SYNC voice recognition feature.

However, I only want navigation, music, phone functions, hybrid info display, and maybe diagnostics and ADAS. The latter two are only wish list items. So I wrote the following comparison. It would appear that for my limited wants, an oem system may be the unexpected better solution. Critiques of my reasoning are welcome, of course.

The comparison is in the context of an Android phone. The Apple smartphone world is a little different.

Ford OEM Nav Unit vs Aftermarket for 2009 FEH

Hybrid info display: advantage Ford
- aftermarket unit can't do graphics
- aftermarket unit can display Torque etc. but require OBDII adapter, smartphone, and Mirrorlink etc, if it's even possible to get hybrid parameters
- if Torque could be programmed, lots of other parameters could be available
- a concern of mine is that the non-nav information display shows L/100km truncated to the whole digit. This means 7.999L/100km shows up as 7L/100km. Complicating this is that on the Canadian spec, no one bothered to simply program the mpg in Imperial gallons. Does the oem nav unit suffer these stupid problems? Hard to find out.

Steering wheel and voice controls: advantage aftermarket
- oem unit uses factory steering wheel controls and SYNC voice recognition
- aftermarket unit requires Maestro/iDatalink to access steering wheel controls and SYNC.
- it's not unusual for aftermarket units these days to incorporate voice commands and accommodate factory steering wheel controls.

Connections: advantage Ford
- aftermarket unit requires HDMI and/or USB cable from phone for Android Auto etc. for 2-way control such as nav apps
- oem and aftermarket units connect to phone via Bluetooth, for music and phone functions
- both oem and aftermarket have jack for backup cam

Navigation Apps: advantage Aftermarket
- oem unit can only do native Ford nav application, aftermarket solution can do anything that's on smartphone, but it requires a cable plus Mirrorlink etc.
- can always use phone in dash bracket for non-oem nav apps, separate from nav unit
- Ford is pleased to charge you about $150 per year for updated maps on DVD. How generous of them.
- oem unit can't be "taken over" by Android Auto etc.

Music quality:
- I'm not a car sound expert. Even if the aftermarket systems sound better, the oem non-nav system I have now is good enough for me.

Other Apps:
- I don't use anything besides mapping, phone, music and maybe diagnostics
- smartphone can't be controlled from oem touch screen, but has SYNC and Bluetooth anyway for music and phone functions
- aftermarket units can utilize Mirrorlink or Android Auto or Pioneer Appradio to control and access smartphone from touchscreen
- the latest aftermarket units can run Android apps on the unit itself. That means you could have app such as Torque running on the aftermarket head unit.
- some new aftermarket units also have wifi. Which means you can use it as a wifi hotspot, or install apps using wifi if parked close to a wifi source, or use a wifi OBD dongle for Torque.

CAN bus problems: advantage Ford
- aftermarket units with the OBD adapters etc. can cause CAN problems

Simplicity: advantage aftermarket
- just a matter of duplicating factory setup, some sort of code related to VIN
- assured correct backlight color
- oem unit is touchscreen plus has physical controls
- duplicating the factory nav setup turns out to be a challenge. The considerations include which sound system you're starting from (base, premium, audiophile). The audiophile and nav systems included a rear subwoofer. All non-nav systems had information displayed on the top dash center panel that, on nav systems, was displayed on the nav system instead. So you may have to change that module. Nav systems used different wiring for the steering wheel controls, so that may have to be changed also.
- the factory nav unit setup includes the gps aerial in the satellite aerial roof puck. The non-nav unit doesn't seem to include the gps aerial. So you'd need to provide a gps aerial somehow for the oem nav unit. All aftermarket units come with a gps aerial.

Research: advantage aftermarket
- difficult to impossible to obtain compatible nav unit oem Ford part number
- I'd heard the versions changed part way through the '09 model year. The wiring charts verified this. The early production can be identified by the SDARS satellite radio module mounted under the front passenger seat. The later production incorporated the SDARS in the head unit. This means determining the correct part number for the nav unit is essential, especially for '09's.

Cost:
- full support oem refurbished unit plus kits is $1800-$2300
- diy oem used nav unit plus kits could be under $800, but requires precise part#
- basic aftermarket unit plus Maestro and kits could total under $1000
 

Last edited by xspirit; 02-16-2016 at 08:54 PM. Reason: Added info gleaned from more research
  #13  
Old 03-07-2016, 04:08 PM
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Default Re: Can I Install Newer Factory Head Unit in 2008 FEH?

Even if you somehow are able to locate a 'correct' OEM head unit , all the related parts, and are able to do any ECM programming/rewiring, what happens if it doesn't work?
Who will continue to provide map/tech updates for an 8+ year old unit?
With a aftermarket the retailer/installer/mfg is far more likely to be able to provide support.
 
  #14  
Old 03-08-2016, 11:36 AM
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Default Re: Can I Install Newer Factory Head Unit in 2008 FEH?

Originally Posted by D-mac
Even if you somehow are able to locate a 'correct' OEM head unit , all the related parts, and are able to do any ECM programming/rewiring, what happens if it doesn't work?
Who will continue to provide map/tech updates for an 8+ year old unit?
With a aftermarket the retailer/installer/mfg is far more likely to be able to provide support.
I'm coming around to the same conclusion.

Ford seems to want $150+ to update the maps for the oem nav unit.

My early production 2009 means that to go along with an oem nav unit I also have to add a separate amp. This is in addition to dealing with the steering wheel controls, the center top dash information display, the satellite aerial, and integrating with SYNC. Not to mention the bezel. The cost of all this has the potential to add up to $2000.

In the meantime, it seems pretty standard for aftermarket nav units to have their own voice recognition, adapters to use the steering wheel buttons and Bluetooth. Maestro/idatalink would allow using the oem aux and usb ports.

Even better, high-end top-line brand or imported units now run the Android OS. This opens the potential to run Android apps such as Torque on the head unit. (Whether Torque Pro runs the desired hybrid pids is another question.)

Nav units with MirrorLink, or equivalent, and using a USB cable, can display whatever is running on a smartphone that's also running Mirrorlink. There are two or three other similar programs such as for iPhones. This setup also allows control of the smartphone from the head unit's touchscreen.

There's another OBDII app called HobDrive, which purports to support hybrid functions. But I've been unable to determine if it handles the critical SOC parameter. You could run HobDrive (or Torque etc.) on an Android head unit, bypassing the phone altogether and reducing dash clutter.

High-end nav units with this stuff are around $1500, but imports such as Pumpkin brand are around $300-400.
 

Last edited by xspirit; 03-08-2016 at 11:38 AM.
  #15  
Old 03-12-2016, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Can I Install Newer Factory Head Unit in 2008 FEH?

Originally Posted by xspirit
There's another OBDII app called HobDrive, which purports to support hybrid functions. But I've been unable to determine if it handles the critical SOC parameter. You could run HobDrive (or Torque etc.) on an Android head unit, bypassing the phone altogether and reducing dash clutter.
Here's HobDrive's answer to my question on their FaceBook page, whether their app supports hybrid parameters such as SOC:

"Yes, in latest versions we have wide support of major part of Ford and Ford Escape Hybrid PIDs. You may check demo version for this."
 
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