Who is the company that replaces factory batteries with more powerful ones?
#1
12-28-2007, 04:11 PM
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 322
Who is the company that replaces factory batteries with more powerful ones?
I thought that I read somewhere on this forum about one company that replaces the stock FEH/MMH batteries with a larger battery that will achieve better mpg's.
Anyone know the name of the company?
Anyone know the name of the company?
#2
12-28-2007, 05:59 PM
Re: Who is the company that replaces factory batteries with more powerful ones?
You can travel to Boulder, Colorado and hook up with hybrid plus. For something like $36,000 you can have a state of the art plug in hybrid battery. Our own GPSman1 has driven this setup and achieved something like 140mpg in the urban setting and 90 mpg on the highway.
Hymotion is another option with a plug in battery that piggybacks onto your current hybrid battery. This setup takes up a portion of your cargo space.
I'm assuming it will be another 18-24 months before the plug in hybrid batteries start to become "available" on a few new models.
Hymotion is another option with a plug in battery that piggybacks onto your current hybrid battery. This setup takes up a portion of your cargo space.
I'm assuming it will be another 18-24 months before the plug in hybrid batteries start to become "available" on a few new models.
#3
01-08-2008, 10:36 PM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: Who is the company that replaces factory batteries with more powerful ones?
Hymotion has decided to not produce after market batteries for the Ford Escape Hybrid. Their web site still mentions the Prius.
#4
01-08-2008, 10:43 PM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
The Plug-In Escape from Hybrids Plus
I took one of the newest Plug-In Escapes ( a 2007 4x4 ) from Hybrids Plus of Boulder, CO for a more extensive test drive the weekend of Jan 4th and 5th. They are now converting 2008’s as well, but the one they loaned me was a 2007.
The new battery pack components are streamlined, and ready to be mass-produced. The physical design has been greatly simplified, is more sturdy than before, and easier and safer to assemble than ever before. The prototype had a few large, bulky, odd shaped battery units, with a very specific way to assemble. The new battery packs have ten identical, symmetrical units, each one sealed in its own package, and while there is a definite top and bottom, there is no left or right… they can go in either way. Picture (10) 12 packs of soda set side by side. There are no high voltage wires between the units, just bolt together lugs. There are low voltage communication wires. One unit at a time ( just 10% of your pack ) can be removed and serviced, or replaced at a time. And can be done within minutes, as I do not think the pack as a whole ever needs to be removed from the car. Each 10% of the pack can be bench tested, or reconditioned individually at Hybrids Plus if need be. And the 10 smaller packs are very easy and light weight to handle. Each of the 10 major packs is then sub-divided internally to 10 “cell arrays”. There’s probably room for 10 to 20% more cells back there now… however, the pack already has so much capacity, it’s stretching the ability of 120 VAC to recharge it in one night.
Day 1 started off with a partially charged battery. It had over 75% SOC, but I was told an exact SOC reading is not possible until the charger has a chance to reach what it thinks is 100%, and then spend additional time “balancing” the cells. From what I learned, the charger will put full current to all the cells from low SOC up to the point that the first bank of cells reaches maximum voltage. Then, the battery is allowed to rest a short while, with no charging. At the same time, small resistors turn on to the banks of cells with highest voltage. Then the charger starts up again. This allows the voltage to come up in the lower voltage cells. The process is repeated as many times as necessary. This is how the lower voltage cells get a chance to “catch up” to the others, and also prevents the few particular cells that have a natural affinity to charge quicker, not to over charge. The difference in voltage between banks of cells is always slight, usually lowest to highest varies by only a few percent. You can drive just fine with banks of cells a few percent apart, but for optimum results, both discharging and charging, it is best to have them ‘exactly’ the same. And this is possible, given enough time to “balance”. You can get over 90% battery capacity without the balance, if you can’t wait the extra time before driving again.
I started a 50 mile drive on the highway. I set Cruise Control to 55 miles per hour. For the first 15 miles, the battery provided about a continuous 45 amps to the Traction Motor. The ICE was making about 12-14 horsepower. My MPG at the end of 15 miles was 91 MPG on the built-in dash (no Nav) and 101 MPG on the ScanGauge. I’m not sure why they were off so much, but draw your own conclusions. CHT never got past 216 degrees. Water temp never got past 166 degrees. It was a 45 degree night, and I used no heat to the cabin. The HV battery lost 30% in 15 miles.
Then I got on a route with higher speed limit. At 65 miles per hour cruise control the HV battery was putting out about a constant 50 amps. I was getting about 80 to 88 MPG ( ScanGauge) at 65 miles per hour.
At 24.5 miles into the trip ( all highway except for 3 brief stop lights ) the battery reached as low as programmed for, and quit adding forced assist, and went into battery SOC sustain mode, just like all regular FEH do.
I continued to drive for 50+ miles of highway. The 4x4 was getting 32-33 MPG for the rest of the trip, which I think is better than a standard FEH @ 65 miles per hour.
This fact may be attributed to the fact that the lithium battery has very low resistance, and there is virtually no loss to heat. It would continue to take a small charge from small sections of downhill, and give small amounts of assist on small sections of uphill to maintain 65 miles per hour on cruise control.
I took it to my home ( with permission, of course ) and drove in the city for a few miles. Here there was a small difference in programming. The HV battery was at or below its self-calculated minimum of 10%, but would not force charge at stoplights, like when the FEH drops below 40% and ICE must run. This car would still allow the engine to stop at below min. SOC at stoplights, and take off again in EV. It would only trickle charge when the ICE was running for other reasons. After talking with Hybrids Plus, this was not the design intent, and this section of program will be changed to more closely match the FEH when levels get low. Keep in mind that “0%” does not mean a dead battery. 0% SOC simply means 300v when 100% = 340v for example.
I then plugged in for the night with a 50’ std. 3-wire orange extension cord to my home. It took 12 hours to indicate the first bank of cells were at 100% and 14 hours for about 38% of the cells to indicate 100% ( the slow balance process). For all practical purposes, the battery was done in 12 hours, and very little additional charge was added in the subsequent 2 hours. The rest of the cells were likely at 99%. It sounds like it is a careful, but lengthy process to top off all the cells, but I’m told it gets quicker as the battery gets a few more cycles. This was a very fresh, new battery, with only a few trips on it. It may have not been fully “seasoned” yet. This may explain why all FEH owners see a boost in performance after 1000 to 3000 miles, if Ford does something similar. The charging took longer than expected, but I parked with a lower than expected SOC, due to my driving technique the previous night that skirted part of the original ( but now improved ) program.
Drive Day 2.
Started city driving ( 25-30 miles per hour ) with a cold engine. It was 42 degrees outside, and the entire car was 42 degrees or less, since it was a below freezing night.
The HV battery was doing most of the work from the get go. This was both good and bad. Bad because that meant the ICE wasn’t doing much work, so it took a long time to heat up, and allow EV, even though the weather wasn’t terrible.
With several stop lights in the first 3.5 miles, and zero times of engine shut down, my MPG was only 38 MPG. It was that good ( better than a FEH ) because the battery was doing all the work. It was that BAD also because the battery was doing all the work. A paradox of what to do from a cold start. I got to the restaurant I was going to for lunch, and saw the water temp and CHT going up, so I let it idle for a minute in the parking lot, then the car did go into EV. Then I turned off the key and went inside. In this first 3.5 miles, I used up 10% battery SOC.
After a ~30 minute lunch I went for a long, all city drive. I started with a warm, but not hot engine. I reset the ScanGauge but not the built-in dash MPG display.
The dash showed 38 MPG now. Weather was 45 degrees with 12-17 MPH winds ( per local community airport ). I did all stop and go with some stop signs, but more stop lights than signs. Speeds were generally 25-35 MPH. Max speed in 2 hours was 42 MPH. EV was used as much as possible, likely greater than 80% of the time, with ICE only used to maintain heat, and climb a few hills. There was regen added to the pack at every stop, of course. I don’t think I ever used brake pads!
Battery SOC was 90% at 3.5 miles from home.
Battery SOC was 80% at 7.0 miles.
Battery SOC was 70% at 16.0 miles.
Battery SOC was 60% at 21.6 miles.
Battery SOC was 50% at 28.5 miles.
Battery SOC was 40% at 35.5 miles.
Battery SOC was 30% at 41.0 miles.
Battery SOC was 20% at 48.0 miles.
Battery SOC was 10% at 52.3 miles, and went to sustain mode here.
*** THE SCANGAUGE WAS RESET AFTER FIRST 3.5 MILES TO NOT INCLUDE THE COLD START LOSS ***
At 3.5 miles, FEH had 38 MPG ( ScanGauge was not recorded )
At 15.0 miles, FEH had 60 MPG ( ditto )
At 20.0 miles, FEH had 72 MPG ( ditto )
At 23.6 miles, FEH had 80 MPG ( ditto )
At 31.0 miles, FEH had 87 MPG ( ScanGauge 27.5 miles @ 125 MPG )
At 35.0 miles, FEH had 91 MPG ( ScanGauge 31.5 miles @ 130 MPG )
At 40.0 miles, FEH had 96 MPG ( ScanGauge 36.5 miles @ 135 MPG )
At 45.1 miles, FEH had 99.9 MPG ( ScanGauge 41.6 miles @ 137 MPG )
At 52.3 miles, FEH was off scale high ( ScanGauge 48.8 miles @ 142 MPG )
With all that EV use, I monitored the Traction Motor temp with the SG.
( I figured the generator wasn’t doing much of anything. )
Traction Motor Temp averaged about 147’F with a max. of 150’F.
The allowable limit is 220’C (428’F) which is absurdly high. So no worries there.
My water temp was always warmer than 140’F after the second, warm start. So no worries there. About 4 times, the ICE did come on at stoplights with a water temp in the 150’s, but this was because the CHT was too cold, not the water temp. M/E coolant stayed about 68’F the entire trip on a 45’F day.
I forgot to check the tires, but were probably stock ( hopefully at least 35psi ).
The battery temp was 16-18’C ( 61-64’F ) the whole trip which was probably the same as the cabin temperature, since I was very comfortable the whole trip. I had a display that showed the coldest, warmest, and average cell temperature. All were in the 16-18’C range the whole time with frequent 50 amp, and nearly continuous 25 amp power draws. NO COOLING FANS WHATSOEVER! That shows how much better these cells are compared to Ford’s stock.
Any questions?
-John
Photo of integrated battery meter. Very Nice!
Battery - The orange "U" is the safety disconnect, serves the same purpose as Ford's round one.
The stock Ford battery connectors are not removed... thus, a stock battery pack could be re-installed.
Hybrids Plus includes a ScanGauge with every conversion, since their cars exceed the built-in display for MPG.
I also brought one of my own, and had two connected in series so I could monitor 8 gauges.
The results speak for themselves I think!
The new battery pack components are streamlined, and ready to be mass-produced. The physical design has been greatly simplified, is more sturdy than before, and easier and safer to assemble than ever before. The prototype had a few large, bulky, odd shaped battery units, with a very specific way to assemble. The new battery packs have ten identical, symmetrical units, each one sealed in its own package, and while there is a definite top and bottom, there is no left or right… they can go in either way. Picture (10) 12 packs of soda set side by side. There are no high voltage wires between the units, just bolt together lugs. There are low voltage communication wires. One unit at a time ( just 10% of your pack ) can be removed and serviced, or replaced at a time. And can be done within minutes, as I do not think the pack as a whole ever needs to be removed from the car. Each 10% of the pack can be bench tested, or reconditioned individually at Hybrids Plus if need be. And the 10 smaller packs are very easy and light weight to handle. Each of the 10 major packs is then sub-divided internally to 10 “cell arrays”. There’s probably room for 10 to 20% more cells back there now… however, the pack already has so much capacity, it’s stretching the ability of 120 VAC to recharge it in one night.
Day 1 started off with a partially charged battery. It had over 75% SOC, but I was told an exact SOC reading is not possible until the charger has a chance to reach what it thinks is 100%, and then spend additional time “balancing” the cells. From what I learned, the charger will put full current to all the cells from low SOC up to the point that the first bank of cells reaches maximum voltage. Then, the battery is allowed to rest a short while, with no charging. At the same time, small resistors turn on to the banks of cells with highest voltage. Then the charger starts up again. This allows the voltage to come up in the lower voltage cells. The process is repeated as many times as necessary. This is how the lower voltage cells get a chance to “catch up” to the others, and also prevents the few particular cells that have a natural affinity to charge quicker, not to over charge. The difference in voltage between banks of cells is always slight, usually lowest to highest varies by only a few percent. You can drive just fine with banks of cells a few percent apart, but for optimum results, both discharging and charging, it is best to have them ‘exactly’ the same. And this is possible, given enough time to “balance”. You can get over 90% battery capacity without the balance, if you can’t wait the extra time before driving again.
I started a 50 mile drive on the highway. I set Cruise Control to 55 miles per hour. For the first 15 miles, the battery provided about a continuous 45 amps to the Traction Motor. The ICE was making about 12-14 horsepower. My MPG at the end of 15 miles was 91 MPG on the built-in dash (no Nav) and 101 MPG on the ScanGauge. I’m not sure why they were off so much, but draw your own conclusions. CHT never got past 216 degrees. Water temp never got past 166 degrees. It was a 45 degree night, and I used no heat to the cabin. The HV battery lost 30% in 15 miles.
Then I got on a route with higher speed limit. At 65 miles per hour cruise control the HV battery was putting out about a constant 50 amps. I was getting about 80 to 88 MPG ( ScanGauge) at 65 miles per hour.
At 24.5 miles into the trip ( all highway except for 3 brief stop lights ) the battery reached as low as programmed for, and quit adding forced assist, and went into battery SOC sustain mode, just like all regular FEH do.
I continued to drive for 50+ miles of highway. The 4x4 was getting 32-33 MPG for the rest of the trip, which I think is better than a standard FEH @ 65 miles per hour.
This fact may be attributed to the fact that the lithium battery has very low resistance, and there is virtually no loss to heat. It would continue to take a small charge from small sections of downhill, and give small amounts of assist on small sections of uphill to maintain 65 miles per hour on cruise control.
I took it to my home ( with permission, of course ) and drove in the city for a few miles. Here there was a small difference in programming. The HV battery was at or below its self-calculated minimum of 10%, but would not force charge at stoplights, like when the FEH drops below 40% and ICE must run. This car would still allow the engine to stop at below min. SOC at stoplights, and take off again in EV. It would only trickle charge when the ICE was running for other reasons. After talking with Hybrids Plus, this was not the design intent, and this section of program will be changed to more closely match the FEH when levels get low. Keep in mind that “0%” does not mean a dead battery. 0% SOC simply means 300v when 100% = 340v for example.
I then plugged in for the night with a 50’ std. 3-wire orange extension cord to my home. It took 12 hours to indicate the first bank of cells were at 100% and 14 hours for about 38% of the cells to indicate 100% ( the slow balance process). For all practical purposes, the battery was done in 12 hours, and very little additional charge was added in the subsequent 2 hours. The rest of the cells were likely at 99%. It sounds like it is a careful, but lengthy process to top off all the cells, but I’m told it gets quicker as the battery gets a few more cycles. This was a very fresh, new battery, with only a few trips on it. It may have not been fully “seasoned” yet. This may explain why all FEH owners see a boost in performance after 1000 to 3000 miles, if Ford does something similar. The charging took longer than expected, but I parked with a lower than expected SOC, due to my driving technique the previous night that skirted part of the original ( but now improved ) program.
Drive Day 2.
Started city driving ( 25-30 miles per hour ) with a cold engine. It was 42 degrees outside, and the entire car was 42 degrees or less, since it was a below freezing night.
The HV battery was doing most of the work from the get go. This was both good and bad. Bad because that meant the ICE wasn’t doing much work, so it took a long time to heat up, and allow EV, even though the weather wasn’t terrible.
With several stop lights in the first 3.5 miles, and zero times of engine shut down, my MPG was only 38 MPG. It was that good ( better than a FEH ) because the battery was doing all the work. It was that BAD also because the battery was doing all the work. A paradox of what to do from a cold start. I got to the restaurant I was going to for lunch, and saw the water temp and CHT going up, so I let it idle for a minute in the parking lot, then the car did go into EV. Then I turned off the key and went inside. In this first 3.5 miles, I used up 10% battery SOC.
After a ~30 minute lunch I went for a long, all city drive. I started with a warm, but not hot engine. I reset the ScanGauge but not the built-in dash MPG display.
The dash showed 38 MPG now. Weather was 45 degrees with 12-17 MPH winds ( per local community airport ). I did all stop and go with some stop signs, but more stop lights than signs. Speeds were generally 25-35 MPH. Max speed in 2 hours was 42 MPH. EV was used as much as possible, likely greater than 80% of the time, with ICE only used to maintain heat, and climb a few hills. There was regen added to the pack at every stop, of course. I don’t think I ever used brake pads!
Battery SOC was 90% at 3.5 miles from home.
Battery SOC was 80% at 7.0 miles.
Battery SOC was 70% at 16.0 miles.
Battery SOC was 60% at 21.6 miles.
Battery SOC was 50% at 28.5 miles.
Battery SOC was 40% at 35.5 miles.
Battery SOC was 30% at 41.0 miles.
Battery SOC was 20% at 48.0 miles.
Battery SOC was 10% at 52.3 miles, and went to sustain mode here.
*** THE SCANGAUGE WAS RESET AFTER FIRST 3.5 MILES TO NOT INCLUDE THE COLD START LOSS ***
At 3.5 miles, FEH had 38 MPG ( ScanGauge was not recorded )
At 15.0 miles, FEH had 60 MPG ( ditto )
At 20.0 miles, FEH had 72 MPG ( ditto )
At 23.6 miles, FEH had 80 MPG ( ditto )
At 31.0 miles, FEH had 87 MPG ( ScanGauge 27.5 miles @ 125 MPG )
At 35.0 miles, FEH had 91 MPG ( ScanGauge 31.5 miles @ 130 MPG )
At 40.0 miles, FEH had 96 MPG ( ScanGauge 36.5 miles @ 135 MPG )
At 45.1 miles, FEH had 99.9 MPG ( ScanGauge 41.6 miles @ 137 MPG )
At 52.3 miles, FEH was off scale high ( ScanGauge 48.8 miles @ 142 MPG )
With all that EV use, I monitored the Traction Motor temp with the SG.
( I figured the generator wasn’t doing much of anything. )
Traction Motor Temp averaged about 147’F with a max. of 150’F.
The allowable limit is 220’C (428’F) which is absurdly high. So no worries there.
My water temp was always warmer than 140’F after the second, warm start. So no worries there. About 4 times, the ICE did come on at stoplights with a water temp in the 150’s, but this was because the CHT was too cold, not the water temp. M/E coolant stayed about 68’F the entire trip on a 45’F day.
I forgot to check the tires, but were probably stock ( hopefully at least 35psi ).
The battery temp was 16-18’C ( 61-64’F ) the whole trip which was probably the same as the cabin temperature, since I was very comfortable the whole trip. I had a display that showed the coldest, warmest, and average cell temperature. All were in the 16-18’C range the whole time with frequent 50 amp, and nearly continuous 25 amp power draws. NO COOLING FANS WHATSOEVER! That shows how much better these cells are compared to Ford’s stock.
Any questions?
-John
Photo of integrated battery meter. Very Nice!
Battery - The orange "U" is the safety disconnect, serves the same purpose as Ford's round one.
The stock Ford battery connectors are not removed... thus, a stock battery pack could be re-installed.
Hybrids Plus includes a ScanGauge with every conversion, since their cars exceed the built-in display for MPG.
I also brought one of my own, and had two connected in series so I could monitor 8 gauges.
The results speak for themselves I think!
Last edited by gpsman1; 01-08-2008 at 11:25 PM. Reason: added photos
#5
01-09-2008, 12:23 PM
Re: Who is the company that replaces factory batteries with more powerful ones?
John, thanks for the great report once again.
A couple questions, marketing rather than technical.
Does the company anticipate a price drop in the conversion? If so, over what time?
How does this compare to Ford's own PHEV effort (I think they are field testing in SoCal right now.) Certainly Hybrids Plus would (should) have considered this in their business plan.
A couple questions, marketing rather than technical.
Does the company anticipate a price drop in the conversion? If so, over what time?
How does this compare to Ford's own PHEV effort (I think they are field testing in SoCal right now.) Certainly Hybrids Plus would (should) have considered this in their business plan.
#6
01-09-2008, 01:07 PM
Re: Who is the company that replaces factory batteries with more powerful ones?
Wow
What are cars going to be like in 5 years? When our current FEHs are considered gas guzzlers.
John, do you if they developed their own PCM or did they hack the Ford programs?
What do you think the average Joe would get with out using hyper mile techniques on a 40 mile round trip commute?
What are cars going to be like in 5 years? When our current FEHs are considered gas guzzlers.
John, do you if they developed their own PCM or did they hack the Ford programs?
What do you think the average Joe would get with out using hyper mile techniques on a 40 mile round trip commute?
#7
01-09-2008, 01:13 PM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: Who is the company that replaces factory batteries with more powerful ones?
Ford's and ones from Hybrids Plus are nearly identical performance wise.
Ford says they "tweaked" the rear suspension to account for the added weight. Big Deal. The added weight is only 100 pounds over the original battery. Does that mean I need a tweaked rear suspension to carry around 100 pounds of tools, or dog food? Hell... I have 100 pounds of tools, and "emergency" equipment ( tire chains, quart of oil, gallon of anti-freeze, food, water ) in a box back there all the time.
Other than that, the difference is... you can get one today from Hybrids Plus, and who knows about Ford?
Costs? Well, I can tell you from the materials and man hours involved, there is a very low profit margin in these packs right now. To be honest, most of the workers at Hybrids Plus bike to work, and share one company car for errands! -John
Mark- I did not "baby" the car or do much "hypermile" techniques. I only did what any smart driver would do, anticipate lights, accelerate to at least 20 MPH in EV, and tap the brake to shut down the engine when I was on a downgrade. The tires were ~35psi, the roof rack was on ( but I was going pretty slow ) and I was "just driving" for the most part. There was no real P&G, FAS, or Neutral coasting. I tried LGA a few times. That's it. The car is marketed to "at least double" your MPG. I think most will get triple MPG. People on this site, 4x MPG.
Ford says they "tweaked" the rear suspension to account for the added weight. Big Deal. The added weight is only 100 pounds over the original battery. Does that mean I need a tweaked rear suspension to carry around 100 pounds of tools, or dog food? Hell... I have 100 pounds of tools, and "emergency" equipment ( tire chains, quart of oil, gallon of anti-freeze, food, water ) in a box back there all the time.
Other than that, the difference is... you can get one today from Hybrids Plus, and who knows about Ford?
Costs? Well, I can tell you from the materials and man hours involved, there is a very low profit margin in these packs right now. To be honest, most of the workers at Hybrids Plus bike to work, and share one company car for errands! -John
Mark- I did not "baby" the car or do much "hypermile" techniques. I only did what any smart driver would do, anticipate lights, accelerate to at least 20 MPH in EV, and tap the brake to shut down the engine when I was on a downgrade. The tires were ~35psi, the roof rack was on ( but I was going pretty slow ) and I was "just driving" for the most part. There was no real P&G, FAS, or Neutral coasting. I tried LGA a few times. That's it. The car is marketed to "at least double" your MPG. I think most will get triple MPG. People on this site, 4x MPG.
Last edited by gpsman1; 01-09-2008 at 01:20 PM.
#8
01-09-2008, 02:14 PM
Re: Who is the company that replaces factory batteries with more powerful ones?
Thanks John, thats just incredible, 35 mpg CAFE might be low. I hope someone has a break through in the Li-Ion battery soon.
From your recharge experince looks like you would need about 18kW to charge the battery, so at $.10 a kW does that mean less than $2.00 to charge the battery?
From your recharge experince looks like you would need about 18kW to charge the battery, so at $.10 a kW does that mean less than $2.00 to charge the battery?
#9
01-09-2008, 02:45 PM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: Who is the company that replaces factory batteries with more powerful ones?
I had a meter in the car.
The battery discharged about 10kWh in 50 miles.
How much "overhead" do you think the charger would burn up to replace that? I doubt it would be 8kWh extra, but certainly more than 10 kWh.
The batteries do not get hot. The charger itself has a small cooling fan like on a computer. There are options to use 208v or 240v to charge in half the time. That 'may' warm the batteries a bit.
Electric in small town Minnesota is about $0.11 / kWh.
Electric in small town Colorado is about $0.125 / kWh.
I hear So. California has similar rate for the first few (100?) kWh you use per month, then the price jumps to double.
The battery discharged about 10kWh in 50 miles.
How much "overhead" do you think the charger would burn up to replace that? I doubt it would be 8kWh extra, but certainly more than 10 kWh.
The batteries do not get hot. The charger itself has a small cooling fan like on a computer. There are options to use 208v or 240v to charge in half the time. That 'may' warm the batteries a bit.
Electric in small town Minnesota is about $0.11 / kWh.
Electric in small town Colorado is about $0.125 / kWh.
I hear So. California has similar rate for the first few (100?) kWh you use per month, then the price jumps to double.
#10
01-10-2008, 02:42 PM
Re: Who is the company that replaces factory batteries with more powerful ones?
I was estimating 1500 w X 12 hrs which is a bout the limit for a standard 110v circuit.
Anyway looks like it costa about $.04 a mile to "fuel"
Anyway looks like it costa about $.04 a mile to "fuel"
