Zimbop - I agree with your points. I have a hard time with the "we're so green" marketing going on showing pictures of mid 20's MPG power hybrids or SUVs. I do think there is a small collateral benefit to mileage even in those SUVs, but nothing close to offsetting the cost. I think the key is what kind of ICE do they use. The Camary went with a smaller 4 cyl engine - that says they kept a good eye on economy. Then you have the 255 hp Accord mated to a V6. Then again, look at the sales of that car. I think the Camary will out sell it by signifiant numbers.

One of my cars has to be a multi-passenger (6+), so I either need a van or 7 passenger SUV. I opted for a Pilot. Now if that came in a hybrid, I would have jumped all over it. If I require the kind of vehicle that gets 20 MPG, I'd rather be in a hybrid even if the gain was only to 25 or 26 MPG. Oh, and I should add that it can't cost a gazillion dollars like the Highlander...

 

I think you are making a mistake by equating only MPG with environmentally friendly. By pairing this car up with a hybrid drive train you are able to greatly reduce the emmisions from this car without sacrificing horse power. And there IS a MPG benefit. I don't think you can find another vehicle with 340HP that gets mid to high 20's in real world fueld economy. They will be 18-22 at best.

There are other ways to quantify environmentally friendly, tail pipe emmissions are a huge environmental concern and this car has greatly reduced those with it's SULEV rating. Can you name another 340hp vehicle that meets these emmission standards?

 

Well it is the future of hybrids so get used to it. You may not believe this, but hybrid technology is very good. Seriously! It's superior to non-hybrid engines, so eventually more and more powertrains, for all sorts of uses, will be converted to hybrid designs. That means economy cars, sports cars, luxury sedans, SUVs, and pickups. Sorry.

And by the way, 30% better mileage for low-mileage cars results in significantly less fuel than 30% better mileage than fuel-efficient cars. Going from 18 mpg to 24 mpg might not sound great to you, but at 15000 miles/year, it's a reduction of 208 gallons/year. Contrast that to going from 30 mpg to 40mpg, which is just a reduction of 125 gallons/year.

Not to mention the fact that many people are afraid of or resent fuel-efficient technologies, so expanding the market for hybrids is very important.

 

I agree with most all of your points. I understand that a 3 mpg gain means more the lower the base mpg is, and I understand that there aren't any 339 hp vehicles out there that get 24 mpg. I was talking about a car that would otherwise easily get 24 mpg without hybrid technology if it were reasonably powered, and now that it's super-powered it still gets 24 mpg. That's not a gain. The point is that getting 24 mpg in a passenger car is no environmental triumph, 340 hp or not.

From a big picrture standpoint, hybrids do not seem to be going in the direction of helping us consume less gas in total, they're giving us higher performance for the same fuel usage, which is not a fuel savings, it's a power gain. Not the same thing. This is not going to solve our energy crisis, it is just going to let us drive and accellerate faster without doing a thing to improve our situation.

Also, I don't believe there's anything magic about the hybrid as an emissions scrubber. X amount of gasoline burned in a hybrid ICE has relatively the same emissions as X amount of gas burned in a ICE without hybrid. You have to burn less gas to make less exhaust, or am I missing something? Getting more power for the same emissions is not going to eliminate any smog, it will just help us make smog faster.

 

This is a great car, i'd love to own one if i could afford it. I live in canada and one of these go for $77,000CND +PDI +Taxes. Believe me, If i had the kind of job which can make me afford this much for to pay for a car like this, i can certainly afford to buy gasoline regardless of price And a whole lot of other nice things in life like bottled water which goes for $1.25 per 500ml, which i dont hear too many people complaining too much about. Not to mention how much it would cost to maintain this car, i heard lexus/toyota charges over $1000 for just inspections, so why even bother thinking about how much can be saved on gas . Also, with a gas station at every corner in my city, what's there to worry about?
Or, if i own a successful business, I wouldnt mind leasing one of these and buying more gas to charge on my income tax

 

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And here we go. "If we have money we don't need morals". Spoken like a true capitalist. How'd a red-blooded canadian get corrupted like that?

 

I won't claim to be an expert in answering this, but I do believe that there is something "magic" about the hybrid in reducing emmisions. They are not rated as SULEV vehicles simple based on the reduction of gas consumption or their overall MPG. If that was the case I don't see how the Highlander could ever be rated as SULEV since it has the same V6 engine as the standard Hybrid which is not an SULEV. The hybrid drivetrain is allowing them to tune the engine in such a way that it reduces tailpipe emmisions.

I am sure someone here could explain this better. I think I saw a thread on this at one point in time. I will take a look and if I find something post a link.

 

And lets not get started on how many people WITH NO MONEY HAVE NO MORALS EITHER Regardless of their ethnic background.
Dont tell me you guys have noone corrupted there too, what's the difference between canadians and americans nowadays, we carry guns now just like you and i wonder where they come from.
And yes, my blood is red, and it's just like yours, ever wonder why we think the same? we're neighbours and we're just human
If I you were really kind hearted and had a lot of morals, and you could afford to buy this car, wouldnt it be morally better to donate the money instead to charity and buy something else which gets 50mpg like a honda civic hybrid or a prius? Not only you're saving the environment, but youre helping those in need too.

 

I hope, since you put smileys in there, that you realized I was joking. Though there is a point to be made there. And you're right, giving away your financial surplus and buying a HCH would be the right thing to do, if you listen to NPR. However, if you watch fox news or read the WSJ, then you'd probably see that as some sort of immoral act contributing to the destruction of the world by offering handouts to the undeserving. S'pose morality is in the eye of the beholder.

 

It's all good

I must admit, i dont have the mentality of a priest or a saint but i strongly believe that a person is a good citizen as long as they have an honest job, is good to himself/herself and other people.
Now, on the topic of this car...
Everyone seems to be talking about reducing emissions and saving the environment. 339HP from a V6 with a HYBRID Engine. Okay, lets think about that for a sec, 339 HP, now how many of us are actually going to be using all this power?
Right now I just cant seem to put the two pieces together: people who are concerned about emissions and 339HP 0-60 in 5(-6) sec car

"Reduced" emssions is also relative, toyota claims it's compared to a V8. I wouldnt claim a V6 with 273HP a significant enough engine to reduce emissions. I have never heard anyone with a 273HP toyota camry/avalon brag about their "reduced emissions", as someone said in the earlier thread, what's the difference between this engine and a regular V6 engine.
Again, you cant have a four banger in a car this big. So i must say that People will be buying this for other reasons. Personally, if people are very concerned about reducing emissions, the only engine option is a 4 cylinder with a hybrid motor that's why the HCH and the prius are still Morally correct cars That doesnt mean i woulnd mind owning one of these

just my 2 cents.

regards
gj