I am starting new thread here because my situation, I beleive, is very unique.

First, let me describe my unique situation in following bullets:

• I live in Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada. If you have not heard about this city, it is somewhere close to middle of the country and about 2 hours drive north from the USA boarder.
• Current temparature this morning is about -3 degree celcius (26.6 F). Normal high temp around this time of the year is 9 degree C (48.2 F).
• I took the delivery of my TCH on April 02, 2007 with about 19K (11.8 M) on odometer.
• Most Important: My TCH was manufactured in Canada in November 2006 and it was delivered to dealer here in Regina some time late December or early January.
• Average Temp in December, Jan and Feb was anywhere between minus -25 to -10 degree celcius (-13 to 15 F). Yes we live in Canada. I am not sure why?
• I paid deposite of $500 for this car in early February but did not take delivery of this TCH until April 2nd for number of reasons.
• So this Hybrid was sitting un-driven in dealer's lot for at least over 3 months and over 5 months siince it was manufactured. (in extreme cold weather as decribed above)

My issue: iGuide (video guide) on

http://www.toyotaiguide.com/iGuide_CamryHybrid.htm

in its introduction gives following warning:

"It is important in keep in mind however, that if you do not drive your vehicle for 2 weeks or more the hybrid battery and 12 volt auxiliary battery will discharge and their condition is likely to decline. To maintain optimum hybrid battery performance Toyota recommends that you drive vehicle for at least 30 minutes or minimum 10 miles every few weeks"

Question: With my situation How do I know if my battery's condition is not declined and it is still performing at optimum level?

My Current Mileage stats on dealer supplied first tank of gas are:

ODO meter reading: 115 KMs (71.4 Miles)

L/100KMS in display: 8.3 (28.3 US MPG and 34.03 Imperial MPG).

I drive very short distance for my work (only about 7 KMS - 4.3 M) one way.

Despite following all the instructions for Pulse and Glide, I am not able to drive in pure EV mode for more than few seconds.

Please help and let me know what is probabality that my TCH hybrid battery's condition is declined and not performing at optimum level under circumstances described above.

Thanks

 

This is your problem right here. (Most likely) When you start the car, the ICE will kick in in about 10 seconds... and will continue to run until it reaches its normal operating temperature. (or somewhere near normal). This will take about 10 minutes if the outside temp. is in the 40s (F).

Since your drive to work is only about 4 miles, the ICE does not have a chance to fully 'warm up'- and if it does, it isn't at normal operating temp. for very long.

So you aren't actually getting any benefits from the hybrid because of your short drive time.

Try this: Drive your hybrid until the ICE is fully warmed up. (10+ minutes). Then drive your car around in town on flat roads at 25-35mph. (where there won't be much of a demand on the engine) If after another 10-15 minutes, your car still isn't operating in electric only mode... then you might want to take it to the dealer to be checked out.

 

Pitokhato, it sounds like your batteries are fine, and the TCH is running normally. Cold combined with short trips seriously impares the hybrid systems ability to use EV mode.

It is safe to leave the TCH for up to 2 months without running the engine in "normal" temperatures (eg: 20 to 30 celcius)

Battery self discharge is very dependent upon temperature. The colder the temperature, the lower the self discharge rate.

As your TCH was stored in rather cold conditions ( -25 to -10 celcius ) it's rate of discharge would be greatly reduced. On top of that, Toyota dealers are instructed to run (idle) the TCH for at least 30 minutes once a month to keep the batteries well charged. It is very likely your dealer did so.

You can see the SOC (state of charge) level on the MFD (multi function display below the speedometer) or on the energy display on the NAV. That your TCH is starting fine is a very good indication that the batteries are in good shape. Your short commute is long enough to bring up the batteries if their SOC is low.

Regarding EV mode, a block heater may help a lot. Until the ICE (gas engine) warms up, the TCH will not allow EV mode. Even in warm southern California ( 15C at night lately ) I have to drive about 2.5 KMS before I can get into EV mode. I am rather surprised you can get any EV at all at -10 celcius.

 

Thank you very much Nash.

I fully trust your opinion that nothing is wrong with my Hybrid battery and it is hopefully performing at optimum level.

I am going to check with my dealer/salesman to find out if they ever run my TCH for about 30 minutes in idle when it was sitting on their lot.

I am keeping my fingers cross and hope for two things: (1) Warmer weather soon. Every human living in this city is looking forward to it. and (2) My TCH will go and run in EV mode with Pulse and Glide Technique when warmer weather arrives.

Just one more thing on hybrid battery charge. My display in Instrument panel battery charge display keeps on going up (to almost full level) and little down (lower level) evey few minutes. Is this normal?

Thanks

 

Thanks. I will try this.

I just love this forum. Everyone is so helpful.

Thanks again

 

Just a small correction on this 1 point. No Camry Hybrids are manufactured in Canada. They were made initially only in Japan, and are now also made in Kentucky. Of course, this has nothing to do with your issue about EV mode, but you highlighted the fact that your TCH was made in Canada. It wasn't.

 

You are right TKCamry.

Yes it was manufactured in Kentucky.

Thanks for correction.

 

Yes, it is normal. The TCH uses the traction battery to assist when accelerating and to "bleed off" any extra energy stored from braking. Every time you slow down, the TCH uses regenerative braking to charge the traction battery. If you go down a long hill lightly braking, it is possible to "fill" the traction battery to the full level. Conversely, in slow moving congested traffic, it is possible to drain the battery down to one bar by driving a few miles in EV mode.

Don't worry about it, the TCH closely monitors the SOC of the traction battery. "Full" and "Empty" on the display are relative. The battery never charges over about 80% or discharges under about 40% of capacity. That is how Toyota gets such long life out of the battery.

 

HSD's level of performance in cold weather depends largely on battery temperature. Many mornings this winter it took most of the ride to work (call it 12 miles) for the battery to warm up enough that the car was willing to use it for electric-only propulsion. This is perfectly normal, and Toyota did it in purpose. Batteries don't work very well when very cold so Toyota limits how much power you can draw from or put back into the battery when it is below 0C (32F). This forces the ICE to run more and prevents "stealth mode." There is some self-heating of the battery due to internal resistance, and bringing the cabin temperature up to a comfortable level may help a little. But those batteries are very massive and largely isolated so it takes a while for them to heat up. But rest assured that your car's behavior is in the interest of a long-lasting and reliable hybrid battery.

It also works the other way, though. Recently I have found that if the car sits in the sun during a warm spring day and the temperature falls below freezing at night, the car will still operate at full capacity in the morning because the battery itself is still above freezing. Kinda nice to get a little payback!

 

Thank you Brick.

You and others are giving me some comfort now. I will take positive attitude that I may not be able to get most out of my TCH in terms of mileage as compared to Spects MPG. However, given the fact of cold weather here in Canada and particularly in oure great province of Saskatchewan, I am still better off with TCH than non-hybrid 4 cylinder Camry.

I haver read number of other posts on mileage and fuel efficiency. One constant message (I think and I hope I am right when I say constant) is that best way to get better mileage/FE is by:

1. Pulse and Glide i.e. Accellerate gently to a speed little higher than desired speed and then backoff to desired speed by letting go the gas pedal.
2. Accellerate gently but not so gently to desired speed.
3. Do not try to force EV mode all the time.

Can someone please confirm this and correct and add some more suggestions. I am sorry I am mixing other stuff here but I need some special advise from all experts and current TCH owners for my unique situation of cold weather and short distance driving.

Thanks to all.