Hybrid Automotive with single bulb discharge.

 

Good deal. Have you conducted the 3X charge/discharge cycles they recommend on their website? If not, you should do so and then reassess your pack.

 

I have started the process.

I can't say I am off to a great start.

Charged and balanced for about 40 hours. For kicks I took new readings, all pairs were up, low was 16.46, high was 17.67, still out of tolerance.

I started the discharge with a 100 W bulb, was down to 120 from about 160 in about 8 hours. Overnight I switched to a 29 W bulb (weird W I know,) to be sure I did not miss the 96 V recharge point. At 5:00AM, the bulb was out and V was down to 4.6 V. So I may have killed it if it was not dead before. I put it back on the charger anyway and will let it go for a day and then take new readings.

 

Please report all taps.


Your pack is almost certainly past the point of recovering. The severe disparity at the end of the grid charge indicates you have a shorted cell or multiple cells with massive self-discharge, but you may be able to diagnose the bad taps.


The 29W bulb was pulling very little current, so it didn't likely do any more damage than was already present. You need to replace or rebuild.


For future cycles, I recommend you limit the 29W discharge to 6 hours, AFTER you pass back through 120V (it will bounce when switching bulbs) - regardless of target voltage. This will minimize the potential for future damage. Missing by an hour either way doesn't matter, but hitting a target voltage can be a real pain - especially if you want to go to bed... with the 6 hour rule, you can turn it off at 3 hours and then resume later to finish the final 3 or whatever times you choose totaling 6 hours.


I recommend you complete the second cycle except modified as per the above (29W for 6 hours below 120V). On the 3rd cycle, limit 100W discharge to 144V. Switch to 29W and when the pack drops back down to 144V, check and record the taps. Stop after recording the taps and grid charge to full. After grid charge to full, let the pack sit overnight and record the taps.


You will likely be able to identify where the bad sticks are if you want to replace them.


If you don't want to replace them, you should just replace the pack.

 

Pair Initial 1st charge
14 6 12.78 V 16.61 V
6 13 12.95 V 16.65 V
13 5 14.08 V 17.17 V
5 4 14.30 V 17.67 V
1 7 12.88 V 17.15 V
7 2 10.95 V 16.65 V
2 8 12.86 V 16.46 V
8 3 13.18 V 16.68 V
3 9 12.18 V 16.87 V
9 10 13.23 V 17.27 V

Minimum 10.95 16.46
Maximum 14.30 17.67
Range 3.35 1.21

Good guidance, here is the data after the first charge.
I will follow your suggested protocol and report back. I would be inclined to get a box of sticks (looks like BumbleBee can provide) and rebuild myself. I have gone this far...

 

If you get the box of untested sticks, it's a total crapshoot, but I have an Insight running acceptably on a box of those sticks with periodic grid charging and very occasional discharging. Note that most of his sticks have sat around for a very long time and have self-discharged to the point that you don't need to do any significant reconditioning.

Those tap measurements are odd. Normally, one has a low outlier. You have low and high outliers. Are you 10% certain that the 17.67 is NOT 16.67? Another cycle will "recondition" them enough to give a decent idea of their state of health. The LOADED 144V/28W tap voltages will likely give much more of an indication of health.

As it stands you have lusters at about 17.2V and 16.65V with outliers at 17.7 and 16.5. Quite perplexing.

Outliers at that state will be the ones that need to be replaced.


Revised/summarized recommendations:

1. Complete the second charge/discharge cycle except 29W for 6 hours below 120V
2. Grid charge
3. Measure tap voltages immediately before terminating grid charge
4. Discharge to 144V @ 100W
5. Discharge to 144V @ 29W
6. Record the taps.
7. Grid charge 30 hours to full
8. Let it sit 10+ hours after grid charge
9. Record the taps.

 

I have attached the updated data chart. Really interesting I think. It took me more than one try to catch the 144V mark, but I did last night.

Took readings just after full charge. (I can't quite probe the plug without detaching it from the EME so I read it after turning charger off,) was astonished to see 16.50V across all. For kicks I hooked up the 12V battery and checked the flash codes. A bit surprised to still see 65 flash (P1580.)
Hooked in the discharger and let it go down to 144V first with 100W and then 29W bulb and rechecked. Basically all at 14.5V. Still seeing the same code.

I cranked the car (started with 12V,) same 12V battery light on at idle, off above idle. I was also able to "trick" the IMS by shutting off the ignition then cutting it back on again with my foot on the gas to provide about 3000rpm. When I do this, the IMS light goes off (12V and check engine stay on) and the battery charge dash lights will progress to the full state. Cut the engine off, reset the EME and the same code returns.

It feels like the IMS battery is in much better shape so I am now wondering why the code still. Maybe I will swap the EME for the other one. Maybe I need to get it reflashed at Honda, though the one in the car now was reflashed after I put the Cardone battery in it, (which was subsequently removed and shipped back.)

It is back on the charger now for the 30 hours on 10+ hours rest.

Thanks and will update in a couple of days.

 

Okay... Hmmm... A few things:

1. The difference between the 1st and 3rd charge is very odd.
2. Why did you switch from .XX to .X accuracy?
3. Were the 144V readings while LOADED with a 28W bulb or after you disconnected the load?

Regardless, the condition of the taps looks much improved. Back on page 1, I indicated the codes you were reporting were not typical of an IMA battery failure alone, but could be secondary. I believe these results push the suspicion to other areas besides the battery. If any part of the diagnostic tree said, "substitute with a known good MCM/BCM/whatever," you likely need to go that route.


A call to Bumblebee may be useful. I believe they have spare MCM/BCM for reasonable prices.

 

Thanks for the reply

1. I think I was on the third try, it took several attempts, on the 100W bulb the battery would slowly come down from 166 or so Volts to 120, it was usually late at night so I would switch out to the 29W bulb thinking it will still be fairly high in the morning only to find the V down in teens. Perhaps the multiple drain trips helped.
2. 16.50 V reading were to two digits, Odd that all landed the same, 14.xx reading...would like to say 2nd digit was always 0 but was likely was more likely left off due to being tired!
3. I agree. After the next step I will go back through the code trouble shooting. I have two MCM's, I will try the other one. I may have said EME in the last post, it is the MCM that the code refers to.

 

LOL... I don't think your 1, 2 and 3 correspond to mine...


Whatever the case, I think we're on the same page. That battery was hurting in the beginning, and it was definitely a wildcard in the troubleshooting.


I would still record the 10+ hour resting tap voltages.