Failed IMA Battery Owners!
#91
09-16-2010, 12:39 PM
Re: Failed IMA Battery Owners!
The 12v talk in the past two pages has been mind boggling. It's amazing what people do not understand about the separate systems.
IF YOUR CAR IS NOT STARTING, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE IMA BATTERY, REPLACE THE 12V UNDER THE HOOD.
Also, battery brands make no real difference with exception to type. Optima makes a gel acid battery, most others are liquid acid. Gel has a tendency to last longer, which is why they cost more. The differences in most liquid acid batteries are minute, mostly acid solution percentages, plate thicknesses and compositions, but they are principally all the same. A Wal-Mart battery can last 5 years, just like an Autozone battery can as well, or one from Sears. A battery is a battery is a battery, and spending more money on one because of a name brand only guarantees that you'll spend that much more, and maybe have a longer warranty. A battery preference is just a preference, and should be noted as anecdotal at best. Replacing a battery every two years is a bit excessive. Most 12v automotive batteries will last at least 4 years without fail or fault. The only reason to replace a battery so often is failure, pure and simple.
Now onto another pet peeve. The 12v battery has nothing to do with the IMA charging bar on the dash. There is no charging indicator for the 12v. There is only an indicator light, which comes on during the light check at startup, when the key is in run but the engine is not on, or when the battery is too weak to power anything else (i.e. starter, lights, etc).
As far as getting rid of that IMA and engine light. This happens when you remove the constant source of power (the 12v) from the ECM. Disconnecting the ground at the 12v will remove the code from active status, but you will still have the code stored as inactive, so it can still be read with a scanner. If the fault is not consistent at each start up, the light will not come on after a 12v disconnect, but it will when the fault happens again. As far as the IMA, it'd be whenever the computer decides to tell you about it, another cell dies, or the degradation becomes worse.
/rant
Now that all of that is off my chest...
I have a 2004 HCH1, CVT, IMA light flicked on tonight for the first time at 147,312 miles. I never use my A/C, the compressor bricked 35k miles ago and I don't care about replacing it. Windows down everywhere I go. Not to say it's pleasant weather here, we had a month of 100+F heat this summer, just used to it. P2000 code has been throwing itself for the past near 2 two years, haven't replaced the cat (no inspections to worry about). I spent about 6 years as a diesel mechanic, hence the rant. I'll never drag this car to the dealer to replace the battery. I'll just shed the drivetrain in favor of a gas only setup when it's no longer drivable due to the IMA, engine or CVT failure. Surely there's a junkyard around with a 2003-5 engine and 5 speed for less than the cost of a new battery.
IF YOUR CAR IS NOT STARTING, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE IMA BATTERY, REPLACE THE 12V UNDER THE HOOD.
Also, battery brands make no real difference with exception to type. Optima makes a gel acid battery, most others are liquid acid. Gel has a tendency to last longer, which is why they cost more. The differences in most liquid acid batteries are minute, mostly acid solution percentages, plate thicknesses and compositions, but they are principally all the same. A Wal-Mart battery can last 5 years, just like an Autozone battery can as well, or one from Sears. A battery is a battery is a battery, and spending more money on one because of a name brand only guarantees that you'll spend that much more, and maybe have a longer warranty. A battery preference is just a preference, and should be noted as anecdotal at best. Replacing a battery every two years is a bit excessive. Most 12v automotive batteries will last at least 4 years without fail or fault. The only reason to replace a battery so often is failure, pure and simple.
Now onto another pet peeve. The 12v battery has nothing to do with the IMA charging bar on the dash. There is no charging indicator for the 12v. There is only an indicator light, which comes on during the light check at startup, when the key is in run but the engine is not on, or when the battery is too weak to power anything else (i.e. starter, lights, etc).
As far as getting rid of that IMA and engine light. This happens when you remove the constant source of power (the 12v) from the ECM. Disconnecting the ground at the 12v will remove the code from active status, but you will still have the code stored as inactive, so it can still be read with a scanner. If the fault is not consistent at each start up, the light will not come on after a 12v disconnect, but it will when the fault happens again. As far as the IMA, it'd be whenever the computer decides to tell you about it, another cell dies, or the degradation becomes worse.
/rant
Now that all of that is off my chest...
I have a 2004 HCH1, CVT, IMA light flicked on tonight for the first time at 147,312 miles. I never use my A/C, the compressor bricked 35k miles ago and I don't care about replacing it. Windows down everywhere I go. Not to say it's pleasant weather here, we had a month of 100+F heat this summer, just used to it. P2000 code has been throwing itself for the past near 2 two years, haven't replaced the cat (no inspections to worry about). I spent about 6 years as a diesel mechanic, hence the rant. I'll never drag this car to the dealer to replace the battery. I'll just shed the drivetrain in favor of a gas only setup when it's no longer drivable due to the IMA, engine or CVT failure. Surely there's a junkyard around with a 2003-5 engine and 5 speed for less than the cost of a new battery.
hch has no alternator to charge the 12 volt battery separately, but a 140 v. to 12v. dc down converter that works off the ima battery which is storing the charge of the ima motor recharging the ima battery pack,we could make also the same honest mistake.
also the difference between sears platinum and the honda battery beside l the difference inside ,what we want is the 740 cca vs 475cca reserve power, as having 2 radiator fans, 3 brake etc. are of these are all running while the dc down converter is off at a stop lite 3 minutes x stops,what we want is the largest cca reserve possible, and more exposure plates recharging at a given time to balance the time of short 1/2 hr stoplite,as trips we take to the store.
What hert said. You have two batteries in the HCH. The 12v under the hood that runs the accessories when the engine is off and starts the engine initially, and the 144v? IMA battery between the backseat and the trunk. Any auto parts store should carry the battery you need for $60-100. There's no fixing it, just replacing it. It being a 2006, the battery is (likely) original and is just worn out. The 144v battery has nothing to do with starting the engine initially, only after auto-stop.
There is a possibility that the alternator is shot and the battery is dead because it is not receiving enough power from the alternator to keep the battery charged, but that is rather unlikely, given the situation.
My '04 had a related quirk the last time my 12v died. When turning the key I'd step on the accelerator and it acted as if the IMA system kicked in to start the engine. I didn't have enough power to run the lights with the engine off, and it still kicked over but didn't have the traditional engine starting sound. I don't know if this is something intentional by design of the HCH, but I do know it worked.
There is a possibility that the alternator is shot and the battery is dead because it is not receiving enough power from the alternator to keep the battery charged, but that is rather unlikely, given the situation.
My '04 had a related quirk the last time my 12v died. When turning the key I'd step on the accelerator and it acted as if the IMA system kicked in to start the engine. I didn't have enough power to run the lights with the engine off, and it still kicked over but didn't have the traditional engine starting sound. I don't know if this is something intentional by design of the HCH, but I do know it worked.
Last edited by aqua; 09-16-2010 at 12:45 PM.
#92
09-16-2010, 04:24 PM
Re: Failed IMA Battery Owners!
Hey all: 9/5/10
I have a 2004 honda civic hybrid, currently w/155,000+ mi and the ima light is just beginning to come on (i bought in 2003, so nearly 7 yrs). Hard miles-i'm a home health nurse(!) & couple of longer trips. Its been a great car, but now needs some work
. It is a stick and I use the a/c from may/june to october-ish
been reading about re-furbishing, is this a good idea? Have you done it? Does anyone sell used ima batts from wrecks? Ideas?
Thanks, Jen
I have a 2004 honda civic hybrid, currently w/155,000+ mi and the ima light is just beginning to come on (i bought in 2003, so nearly 7 yrs). Hard miles-i'm a home health nurse(!) & couple of longer trips. Its been a great car, but now needs some work
. It is a stick and I use the a/c from may/june to october-ishbeen reading about re-furbishing, is this a good idea? Have you done it? Does anyone sell used ima batts from wrecks? Ideas?
Thanks, Jen
Originally Posted by kterrell 
I am another failed IMA Battery Owner. IMA light originally come on in December 08. My mechanic replaced the 12v car battery which worked until early February when the IMA light came on again. I was told by my Honda dealer that the codes were P1447 and P1449 battery module deterioration. This is a 2003 Civic Hybrid manual transmission with about 120K in mileage. The estimate for repair was $3530 and they wanted me to sign a waiver that if anything else was wrong they wouldn't be responsible. I can't afford the price and I was a little scared about the waiver business. I have chosen to just drive it although that choice leaves me with a nagging stress in the back of my mind. It seems to charge okay. It fully charged the last time I drove it. It also from time to time appears to be charging (about 4 bars) when I don't think it is.
I am another failed IMA Battery Owner. IMA light originally come on in December 08. My mechanic replaced the 12v car battery which worked until early February when the IMA light came on again. I was told by my Honda dealer that the codes were P1447 and P1449 battery module deterioration. This is a 2003 Civic Hybrid manual transmission with about 120K in mileage. The estimate for repair was $3530 and they wanted me to sign a waiver that if anything else was wrong they wouldn't be responsible. I can't afford the price and I was a little scared about the waiver business. I have chosen to just drive it although that choice leaves me with a nagging stress in the back of my mind. It seems to charge okay. It fully charged the last time I drove it. It also from time to time appears to be charging (about 4 bars) when I don't think it is.
I just turned 220K on my '03/5spd with the CEL/IMA lights on/off since around 140K and on solid since 170K or so and I'm still going. In fact I wrung out a 727 mile tank just a few weeks ago. The biggest problem for me is getting past the state inspection once a year. The codes I'm throwing are P1600 and P1449. The red battery icon only lights on power up (not during operation). I do get a lot of recals, and I do lose assist fairly often, usually when I need it most like on a long hill or getting on the interstate, but because it's the stick I can just drop it into a lower gear and keep on going. The auto-stop doesn't work as often either.
I was thinking of getting the battery pack refurbed, but at this point I think I will just try to get as close to 300K as I can as is. The DC-DC converter will crap out eventually and not charge the 12V anymore and that is probably when I will give up the ghost. The car is my workhorse and gets some serious miles but I do take it really easy on her now. Depending on time constraints/traffic I drive the speed limit and maybe even a few mph below and generally just don't push it too hard. I have also found that if I'm not going to use the car for a few days it's best to put a trickle charger on the 12V battery.
I don't know if my experience is repeatable but if you take it easy on them maybe you can also get another 100K miles without doing anything to the battery pack. Of course if you did refurb them, or even dealer replaced for big bucks, especially if you aren't in the snow belt, you could probably get another 200K or even 300K miles.
Best of luck...
Last edited by mrkcohen; 09-16-2010 at 04:33 PM.
#93
10-05-2010, 10:04 AM
Re: Failed IMA Battery Owners!
Hi,
I'm a newbie here and have a 2004 HCH Manual that just turned over 85,000 miles. I bought the car in 2006 with 53,000 miles, from a local Honda Certified Used Car dealer. The car has seen mostly urban driving cycles the past 2 years, with the occasional bi-monthly highway trip. A/C does see seasonal use in May-Sept.
On a side note: I recently replaced the under-hood 12V battery (this was NOT really necessary, I just wanted the peace-of mind with winter fast approaching),
And as far as I know the IMA (144V) battery module has never been replaced. The car performs well and typically gets an indicated 38 - 42 mpg in city use and close to 50 mpg highway. (We do live at 5000 ft ASL, which reduces mileage and power.)
About a week ago the IMA and CHECK Engine lights came on. (P1600 and P1433). At the time they come on the SoC dropped from 75% to roughly half that. Throttle response becomes noticeably sluggish, but the REGen/ASSist meter still works. And the SoC gradually moves up and down. The most I have seen it come back to is about 67 % when the codes are thrown.
When I clear the codes, I observe the following: REGen/ASSist immediately at idle shows (GREEN) charge and the SoC rapidly comes up to 100% within a couple of minutes. When the car is driven, throttle response is crisp and instrumentation shows "like-new" REGen/ASSist and SoC behavior in urban driving.
Then, usually with a day or so (usually less than 20-miles) the same codes return (P1600/P1433).
To the best of knowledge, the ECM has NOT been re-flashed or "Upgraded" by Honda.
1) Is there a way to determine the ECM Version level?
2) If Honda flashes the ECM, will it potentially mask the P1433 code? Making them less likely to replace the IMA battery of DC-DC converter under warranty?
3) What is actually happening when the P1433 code is thrown? It seems to put the system into "LIMP" or "LAME" mode?
4) Does anyone have experience with Honda's Certified Used Car Warranty or Third-Party Warranties, with respect to IMA failures?
Any advice (or dare I say Insights?) woiuld be greatly appreciated.
/Lee
I'm a newbie here and have a 2004 HCH Manual that just turned over 85,000 miles. I bought the car in 2006 with 53,000 miles, from a local Honda Certified Used Car dealer. The car has seen mostly urban driving cycles the past 2 years, with the occasional bi-monthly highway trip. A/C does see seasonal use in May-Sept.
On a side note: I recently replaced the under-hood 12V battery (this was NOT really necessary, I just wanted the peace-of mind with winter fast approaching),
And as far as I know the IMA (144V) battery module has never been replaced. The car performs well and typically gets an indicated 38 - 42 mpg in city use and close to 50 mpg highway. (We do live at 5000 ft ASL, which reduces mileage and power.)
About a week ago the IMA and CHECK Engine lights came on. (P1600 and P1433). At the time they come on the SoC dropped from 75% to roughly half that. Throttle response becomes noticeably sluggish, but the REGen/ASSist meter still works. And the SoC gradually moves up and down. The most I have seen it come back to is about 67 % when the codes are thrown.
When I clear the codes, I observe the following: REGen/ASSist immediately at idle shows (GREEN) charge and the SoC rapidly comes up to 100% within a couple of minutes. When the car is driven, throttle response is crisp and instrumentation shows "like-new" REGen/ASSist and SoC behavior in urban driving.
Then, usually with a day or so (usually less than 20-miles) the same codes return (P1600/P1433).
To the best of knowledge, the ECM has NOT been re-flashed or "Upgraded" by Honda.
1) Is there a way to determine the ECM Version level?
2) If Honda flashes the ECM, will it potentially mask the P1433 code? Making them less likely to replace the IMA battery of DC-DC converter under warranty?
3) What is actually happening when the P1433 code is thrown? It seems to put the system into "LIMP" or "LAME" mode?
4) Does anyone have experience with Honda's Certified Used Car Warranty or Third-Party Warranties, with respect to IMA failures?
Any advice (or dare I say Insights?) woiuld be greatly appreciated.
/Lee
#94
10-29-2010, 11:45 AM
Re: Failed IMA Battery Owners!
I was told a couple of years ago that my battery was degrading. I haven't done anything about it so far, but now I may be forced to. Yesterday my car would barely start. Everything seemed under powered. The windsheild wipers were barely able to move. The headlights were dimmed. The power steering stopped working (although that may be a different problem). Some of the things on the dashboard stopped working (the speedometer, etc.).
I got it towed to the Honda dealership and they said they needed to replace both the start up battery and the IMA battery. The weird thing is that the IMA battery was still fully charging and discharging right before this happened. My dad says that if a battery is still charging and discharging it's fine. He says it must just be the start up battery causing these problems. He says I should do what I did last time: have them replace the start up battery and charge the IMA battery if it needs it.
If I had $4000 of my own money, I'd ignore my dad and just get the IMA battery replaced. But I'm in college and my parents are my only source of money. I don't even have a credit card anymore. There's no way I'll be able to pay for it without their help.
What would do all of you think? Should I beg my parents to replace the IMA or should I just do what my dad suggested?
I got it towed to the Honda dealership and they said they needed to replace both the start up battery and the IMA battery. The weird thing is that the IMA battery was still fully charging and discharging right before this happened. My dad says that if a battery is still charging and discharging it's fine. He says it must just be the start up battery causing these problems. He says I should do what I did last time: have them replace the start up battery and charge the IMA battery if it needs it.
If I had $4000 of my own money, I'd ignore my dad and just get the IMA battery replaced. But I'm in college and my parents are my only source of money. I don't even have a credit card anymore. There's no way I'll be able to pay for it without their help.
What would do all of you think? Should I beg my parents to replace the IMA or should I just do what my dad suggested?
#95
10-29-2010, 12:14 PM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Coquitlam BC, Canada (Greater Vancouver area)
Posts: 729
Re: Failed IMA Battery Owners!
I'd say just have them replace the 12 volt: that is "low hanging fruit", could be the only culprit.
I suspect "full charge" varies over time, likely downward. My HCHII is subject to occasional "recalibrations", and I think the name says it all. Maybe with each recalibration the car's computer re-establishes it's definition of "full charge".
The weird thing is that the IMA battery was still fully charging and discharging right before this happened
#96
12-19-2010, 12:06 AM
Re: Failed IMA Battery Owners!
My battery didn't fail on me but when my engine light and IMA light came on the mechanics at SpeeDee Oil change also pulled a P1600 error code from it.
SpeeDee told me that the code was dealer/Honda specific, so today I had the engine&IMA light checked out ($135 diagnostic) at a Honda dealer in Concord, CA. The problem they found: my positive cable to the small battery (not IMA battery) was so loose that it had come off while they were testing the car/driving it around. They said that when that cable came off, they lost the error codes so they couldn't figure out why the IMA light was on. However, they told me that I had a warranty for this issue if the same problem/light comes back on so I could bring it back free of charge.
Sidenotes: SpeeDee (Davis, CA) told me that my transmission fluid was leaking and that the level was at a minimum so I asked the dealer/mechanic at Honda about this afterward. Honda told me that it was fine and SpeeDee was probably trying to make money off of me.
I had bought my 2004 HCH used at 131K miles, and found out today that there's a warranty for the IMA battery (regardless of/separate from the warranty on the car) depending on which type of battery you have in the car. One type is a 80Kmile/8 year warranty and the other is a 150Kmile/10 year warranty. 80Kmile/8 warranty is for the Ultra Low Emissions type battery and the 150K/10yr warranty is for the Super Ultra Low Emissions type battery.
SpeeDee told me that the code was dealer/Honda specific, so today I had the engine&IMA light checked out ($135 diagnostic) at a Honda dealer in Concord, CA. The problem they found: my positive cable to the small battery (not IMA battery) was so loose that it had come off while they were testing the car/driving it around. They said that when that cable came off, they lost the error codes so they couldn't figure out why the IMA light was on. However, they told me that I had a warranty for this issue if the same problem/light comes back on so I could bring it back free of charge.
Sidenotes: SpeeDee (Davis, CA) told me that my transmission fluid was leaking and that the level was at a minimum so I asked the dealer/mechanic at Honda about this afterward. Honda told me that it was fine and SpeeDee was probably trying to make money off of me.
I had bought my 2004 HCH used at 131K miles, and found out today that there's a warranty for the IMA battery (regardless of/separate from the warranty on the car) depending on which type of battery you have in the car. One type is a 80Kmile/8 year warranty and the other is a 150Kmile/10 year warranty. 80Kmile/8 warranty is for the Ultra Low Emissions type battery and the 150K/10yr warranty is for the Super Ultra Low Emissions type battery.
#97
12-21-2010, 04:55 PM
Re: Failed IMA Battery Owners!
To add to the prev post, my engine & IMA lights came back on so I had to take my car back to service (good thing Honda at Concord,Ca won't charge me again because it's the same lights that came on as last time).
They told me that my battery needs to be replaced, but that since my vehicle uses the Super Ultra Low Emissions type battery, the 150K/10yr warranty applies and I won't have to pay for a new one (phew, dodged a bullet there since I would not have the money to replace it--i'm still a student).
They told me that my battery needs to be replaced, but that since my vehicle uses the Super Ultra Low Emissions type battery, the 150K/10yr warranty applies and I won't have to pay for a new one (phew, dodged a bullet there since I would not have the money to replace it--i'm still a student).
#99
01-23-2011, 06:46 PM
Re: Failed IMA Battery Owners!
2003 HCH failed at 81,700 miles
Pulled codes P1449 and P1600
Dealer cost to replace IMA Battery 2,900
Called Honda USA they will charge me 1k.
Pulled codes P1449 and P1600
Dealer cost to replace IMA Battery 2,900
Called Honda USA they will charge me 1k.
#100
01-24-2011, 07:06 AM
Re: Failed IMA Battery Owners!
2005 HCH failed at 145k
pulled p1600 and p1433
dealer cost to replace battery 3,800
automatic and use the a/c in summer days...
anyone know where to get a battery cheaper?
pulled p1600 and p1433
dealer cost to replace battery 3,800
automatic and use the a/c in summer days...
anyone know where to get a battery cheaper?
