Recently bought a 2003 HCH with 99K miles. ULEV in state where 8 yr/80K. Has IMA and check eng on. No charge on IMA battery, no IMA charging or assist when driving. No auto stop. Battery symbol light (12V?) comes on when rpm less than 1200 at idle. Start up dash sequences lights all the guages ok. Problems sound somewhat similar to yours, but slightly different codes. Pulled P1600 and P1575 codes. Found following on search.
Blown Fuse Causes IMA
If IMA DTC P1575 (MPI voltage problem) sets as
soon as you turn the ignition switch to ON (II) in a
’03–05 Civic Hybrid, check the 100 amp junction
board fuse for an open circuit. If the fuse is open,
replace the fuse and retest.
Any idea where 100 amp junction board fuse is located? I check IMA fuzes underhood and under dash and both look ok . Expect I need to rule out board fuze before proceeding to see if IMA battery is bad/going bad or other problems. Car sat for a while before I bought it which appears to be death sentence to the IMA battery.
Any suggestions on where I can go to get this info (location of 100 amp junction card fuse)? My last resort will be to call the local Honda dealer who usually wants big $ or is protective/overly cautious of giving out info. Responses would be greatly appreciated. Also, I am cheap and don't like to pay for things if I don't have to!!!! Son bought this car(I think pretty cheap....like father... like son) and put it in my driveway. He knows I can't ignore a challenge. A $1000+ investment in an IMA battery doesn't seem wise if it turns out to be a blown fuse or some other circuitry/controller problem. Therefore I am trying to eliminate these first. Again, would greatly appreciate any responses.
(Seems to be a blowup of the junction board), which is located as a component of the IMA battery unit behind the back seat. The junction board sits between the Motor Control Module (MCM) and the Battery Module. The junction board has two fuses on it, the 100A Battery Module fuse, and a 20A DC-DC converter fuse. I'm seeing this in the 2003-2004 Civic Hybrid service manual in the IMA section, pages 12-30 and 12-31. You may be able to stop into a Honda dealership's parts department and ask if they can let you take a look at the service manual.
WARNING***This could be dangerous stuff, being that you have to go into the IMA area behind the seat to check this fuse***, so you might want to check with someone who has experience doing this, like maybe Ron at hybrid-battery-repair dot com. He has some pictures on his website that might help, and you can send him your questions regarding how to go about checking this fuse if you intend to proceed.
Thanks Gairwyn for the response and information. This gives me a place to start and your suggestions are great. I have reviewed some of the battery replacement procedures, etc. and have noted the precautions about disconnecting 12V, turning switches behind seat to off, waiting to allow any capacitors to discharge, wearing insulated gloves and in general being very careful. I was hoping to not have to go in there, but...
yes, the car has a bad 12v battery (will not take charge). I tried two other batteries from my other vehicles with the same result (no IMA charge indication and 12v battery light coming on at and below 1200 rpms). I have seen some conflicting info on 12v battery replacement relative to the CCA in terms of possibly damaging the system if too large of a CCA, but others indicating the more the better in order to withstand autostop usage (no charging going on, but some load like brakelights, etc.). What was in the car was a very small (size and 240 CCA) battery. Not sure if original or not (probably not since car has been in service since May 2003).
I have not had a chance to try the car at highway speed (still need to get tag) so perhaps a new 12V battery, resetting codes and a trip would cause different results. Plan is to try that first before going into the IMA battery compartment.
It's quite possible that the car still had its original 12V battery; they are very small in size and had an "eye" indicator window (red/blue/white color change indicator) on it. My car still had its original one in it for about 5 years I think.
If you google a bit, you might be able to find a download of the service manual, such as this:
Yes, from your description it sounds like the original 12V battery. Eight years is darn good if it is. I had it tested and it showed a bad cell. It is strange they would put a battery in a new car that does not fit the case that surrounds it. The 51R that is called for as a replacement is the exact same size as the holder, but the CCA is 410 or bigger vice 290 for the small battery that was in the car. I am going to assume the larger CCA for the 12V will not harm the DC-to-DC converter or something else in the system. Could that be causing the battery light to come on below 1200 rpms when I put my extra 550 CCA battery in the car to start the gas engine?
I have been reading some info (primarily Insight owners) who have used a 144V (?) 380ma charger to "balance" cells (long trickle charges?). Is it cost effective to invest in one of these to revive a "dead" 144V IMA battery or to maintain the health of one? If so, anyone have info on a good source to order one?
The 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid battery (IMA) is easy to install. The most difficult parts of this installation are the rear seat back and cover plate removal. Once this is done it takes less then 10 minutes to remove and install the new battery. There are five bolts holding the battery in place, five easy fit electrical connections and three bolted wire connections. The battery weighs about 30 lbs. and is approx. 24"x18"x12". A 2x4 and 1x4 (wood), each cut to about 6"-9" long, stacked under the battery will ensure the bolts are aligned for easy installation. Only attempt this if you feel comfortable and are mechanically inclined and have consulted your Honda Dealership service department.
Make sure the ignitions switch is off (remove your Key) and the large main switch is turned off. There is a metal cover plate, with two bolts, in the center of the overall cover plate; remove the small center plate to expose the the large main switch. It looks like a large light switch with a red plastic safety cover on it. Make sure this switch is off before you remove the main cover plate. The battery core is the large black box on the drivers side. Remove all of the wired connections prior to removing the mounting bolts.
Here is the catch; Honda says they must update the firmware and will not provide a parts and labor warranty if you do the installation.
I removed my rear seat back and all but three bolts on the cover and the dealership charged me for 1 hr ($100) labor, instead of 3 hours ($300). But, that only happened because I challenged them on the labor time. Total cost $2,700. I told them it would take me less than 10 minutes from this point. -not including any firmware updates.
This battery situation is a disgrace any, fuel savings is lost when the battery goes out. This battery actually consists of 120 NiMH, D cell rechargeable batteries.
THIS HYBRID WAS NOT WORTH THE EXPENSE AND HEADACHES! THERE WAS NO FUEL COST SAVINGS. IN FACT, FUEL COST WAS HIGHER WHEN YOU FACTOR IN THE ORIGINAL HIGHER COST AND BATTERY REPLACEMENT.
Last edited by 2004 CIVIC Hybrid; 09-18-2011 at 12:02 PM.
So If the dealership replaces the IMA Battery what is the warranty on the new battery? Say in 2010 @ 50000 miles the battery was replaced under warranty would that extend the warranty on the battery out for another 8/ 80,000?