Hello All,

I bought a HCH 2003 from previous owner in 2012 with 92K miles on it.

After 6 months, (mid of 2012), the IMA light started to come on. Initially it would come on occasionally - later it became permanent (along with CEL).

I've been servicing the car at a local Honda dealer and they never suggested to replace IMA battery under warranty (10 yrs/150K miles). My mistake as well that I didn't knew about it and ignored it.

This year I got notice of my Registration Renewal with SMOG check (because of new program started in 2015).

I thought my vehicle would PASS as it doesn't have any issues with emissions or engine or anything - my Honda dealer checks everything green except the IMA battery - which I don't want to invest in given the current KBB value of the car.

Right now I'm at 126K miles and KBB value shows 1950 for private party.

The vehicle failed the SMOG check due to codes P1600, P1449 - which the mechanic told are strictly IMA battery related.

So I've following options: 1) Replace IMA battery for $4000 ($3125 + Tax + Labor) and continue using the car. 2) Retire vehicle for $1000 if approved by BAR CAP. 3) Trade-In my car to a Honda Dealer for a pre-certified or new one.

Any suggestions please?

Thanks a lot for your time.

Regards,
Hiren

 

Sorry to hear you missed out on the warranty.


You need to adjust your thinking. Your car's emission system has failed. it is producing more emissions than it should (reduced mpg = more emissions) because the IMA system is inoperative. It no longer meets it's design and performance parameters and no longer complies with its emissions ratings.


You have another option:


Bumblebee Batteries for $2,095 + shipping from Portland Oregon:


https://bumblebeebatteries.com/hybri...ybrid-battery/


3 year warranty.


Pretty easy to install with a handful of common tools.


Good luck,


Steve

 

In my experience a failed IMA (all the way to the 12V light going on at each stop) only drops the mpg by maybe 2 - out of 38 or so. So while, yes, the CO2 emissions went up, they didn't go up very much, and there is no reason to think that the CO went up at all. NOx maybe went up slightly.

A bad IMA isn't like a failed cat or some other major issue, where the CO and NOx do jump a hundred fold.

That said, the smog guardians don't really care about any of this. If they see a CEL light you don't pass.

 

Your experience is limited. It's true for exclusive highway driving - emissions are not affected by more than 5% or so.

For mixed-mode and in-town driving, mpg drop is typically greater than 20%. On multiple occasions, I have assisted HCH1 owners with a bypass, and that alone produced > 10% in mixed mode. Battery replacements on ailing HCH2 bring mpg from LOW 30's to mid 40's... very significant.

Why wouldn't CO and NOx go up proportionally to the fuel burn? If you're burning more fuel for a given distance and producing more CO2, why wouldn't you produce proportionally more CO and NOx?

It's the above why the smog guardians take that stance.


P.S. BTW... the 12V on at stops is the same as a bypassed pack, i.e., the IMA is completely disabled, thus forced regens don't occur. Most IMA fail partially where they continually try to force regen the pack robbing the car of additional fuel economy by a significant amount.

 

Thanks for your inputs Steve and Pasadena_Commut.

To furnish additional details with my problem:

a) My IMA battery stays mostly between 60-100 % charge. Most times near 70-90 % charge. It charges completely when I drive for a longer time (30 minutes) or so.

b) I get mileage of 33-35 in city and 41-44 on freeways. Combined I'm getting around 37 mpg. (As I mostly use this car for city commute)

c) I replaced my 12v battery last year so that should be good.

Another question is if I pull out the #9 fuse (10 amp) in the middle array of the fuse box, will it reset all the codes or only the IMA related? Because when I do that the IMA and CEL go off for 20-25 miles before they come back on.

Also, replacing the current IMA battery with Bumblebee is an option. However, that would'nt guarantee fix my problem? Any other reasons for P1600 and P1449 codes?

Thanks for the inputs.

Regards,
Hiren

 

The behavior of your SoC, Assist and charge meter have no meaning. Your poor mileage and P1449 codes are conclusive - bad battery.


I can't comment on the behavior of fuse #9.


P1600 is general IMA fault. P1449 is severely deteriorated battery. 99% sure a Bumblebee will fix your issue if you have no other codes. Call them to confirm.

 

The car hardly ever sees the highway, it just trundles back and forth on the same 7.5m each way trip to and from work, all suburban driving. The route may in some ways be optimal for better mileage with a failed pack though. There is an ~400 ft grade from one end to the other, which means going uphill one can bleed off more of the kinetic energy without touching the brakes, while going downhill there are sections where very little gas is needed to maintain speed. More importantly probably is that the lights are pretty quick, so little gas is wasted idling for long periods.

You do produce more - at the engine. It just doesn't make it to the tail pipe. A functioning catalytic converter will burn nearly all CO to CO2 and break down most NOx to O2 + N2. (The latter reaction assumes the car has a "3-way" converter, which since it was sold in California, it almost certainly does.)

 

I had a drive like that. Included a couple miles of 35mph almost uninterrupted driving (only 1 light frequently green) at one end. Even when the pack was ailing, I'd see > 70mpg on the instant meter with cruise set.


When I deviated from that routine for store trips or others in more typical "random" traffic conditions, my mileage went to 32-34mpg if I put forth an effort. This is a car where I could get 51-52mpg with a good battery and no A/C on the same route. 44-46 with A/C.


Good point on the Cat. I didn't think of that.

 

Hah, I wish. The best tank this car has ever achieved was 45mpg - I don't recall what I was doing for that drive, but it was clearly not my usual drive. Typically, when this route makes up most of the miles, in "normal" traffic, with the right ambient temperatures (not too hot, not too cool), right gas (ie, not winter gas), and a working IMA, it will return 40-41mpg. Any and all deviations push the results down from there.

If there is something wrong with the car that is holding the mpg down, whatever it is is not so bad that it runs rough, stumbles, or provides any other clues as to what the problem might be. That's one annoying thing about modern cars, let's say you have a slightly off O2 sensor, the mpg goes down as the ECU compensates, but there's hardly any way to tell that there is a problem until the component fails in a more spectacular manner. I had a Mazda 323 which was giving 23 mpg on this route. Ran like a champ. The mechanic seemingly on a whim decided to clean the injectors. The car ran exactly the same, but gave 26 mpg from then on out.