Hi folks

Well I have come back into this forum after a while away concentrating on another hobby - tweaking my Linux PC environment.

I have read quite a few posts tonight and I get the feeling that a lot of you are not happy with your dealers.

Doesn't Honda have some sort of feedback for you so that you can complain about the dealers and get a better service.

If enough complaints are put through in this country then the dealer loses the Honda badge.

I did start to wander about our dealer and car when we bought our hybrid about 2.5 years ago but, the little misunderstanding was put to rights and they have been very courteous since.

I have even had three wheels changed that were corroding and I didn't have to mention it at service time.

The dealership has now changed hands but, this is due to bidding for it I think and not complaints about the old dealer.

We do have a couple of big franchizes over here - Arnold Clark and Evans Halshaw and I hope that none of them get their hands on the Hondas. Especially Arnold Clark. If that happens then I will either take my business to another Honda dealer or dump the Honda.

I don't have brand loyalty. I have satisfaction demands and if they are not met I go elsewhere regardless of how good the car may be.

Working with computers as I do I find it very odd that the software upgrades cannot be undone.
I would think it highly unlikely that the software guys n' gals would suddenly dump software in favour of bringing out a new version. That is not the way it works. There is always an old version if not two or three to fall back on in case of errors that are unforeseen with the new version that can't be corrected within the new version itself.
If it were me getting told this I would be contacting Honda direct. It is absolutely disgraceful that you get treated this way.

So, good luck and keep at the dealer. After all the customer is King, right??

 

Actually, I think with computers it can be difficult to back-up to previous versions. Depends on the operating system and the specific program. The latest Internet Explorer for example, warns of dire consequences if you initiate an uninstall. Anyway, this lack of reversability upgrading the Civic Hybrid software bothers me as well.

We've just had the latest software installed, after getting a notice from Honda in the mail. Still not sure what I think of it. Seems to me the displayed state-of-charge is less "candid" since the update, if that makes any sense.

My take right now is that both Honda and the dealerships are getting increasingly adversarial with the customers. And if anything, it is Honda that is primarily setting the mood, ie: the dealership's hands are tied. The current mood among Civic Hybrid owners seems to be heading in the direction of dour these days. I'm still open minded, but starting to get uneasy, due to:

1. the hoops owners of HCH with apparently failed (or grossly underperforming) IMA battery are being put through by Honda.

2. the growing suspicion that the software update at least in part masks failing battery symptoms.

 

It's all very strange to me. You guys/gals seem to have an awful lot to do with software upgrades. I don't think I have had any except the one to correct the transmission problem I had during the first month of owning the car.
Fingers crossed that all goes well for you.

 

It amazes me that Honda is having such a hard time figuring out this software issue with the second-generation Civic hybrids. The battery management in my first-generation HCH still works fine. I've never had a re-cal, and the battery seems to charge/recharge in a sensible manner. They created these systems, why can't they seem to get the bugs out of the HCH2 software? And if it isn't the software but something specific to the IMA system itself in the HCH2 they should own up to it and correct the problem instead of trying to mask it with software updates. They're only hurting their reputation and car sales by doing so. I wouldn't buy an HCH2, even though I love my HCH1. I might consider an Insight2, but for now I'll wait and see how well those perform over time.

Welcome back, Dougal; it's nice to hear from you.

 

It's been documented in other forums (and I think elsewhere on this board) that indeed Honda is masking battery failures with software upgrades that exponentially lessen the utilization of the electric motor. The batteries are failing for several reasons - general use, higher heat and others. Honda is trying to hide from it, but hopefully enough people can come together to force them to deal with this issue.

I had a car that ran wonderfully for 4 years and got 46mpg. Over the last few months I have to work hard to get 32mpg and am so scared to drive it that it remains parked. The acceleration isn't viable for basic driving. The battery regens cause the car to nearly stall or hesitate for up to 5 seconds at a time. If you are making a left across oncoming traffic and a regen occurs, you will be broadsided very hard. I was LUCKY that this specific timing hadn't occurred to me, but it will to others or maybe me if I keep driving it.

 

really? documented where?

I never read that stuff from Honda or from any engineer that knowns this car. me thinks you are just repeating what owners like me say when we got nothing else to grab on to. just cause it is the easy answer does not make it is the truth.

ks

 

There are many folks who track this stuff religiously. They have taken the car in and ONLY had a software upgrade done - because Honda insisted that if we did not do so, that a battery failure would not be covered by warranty.

And after having that software change, their mileage dropped dramatically and the use of the electric assist dropped exponentially...and so did mine. What little power the car had was gone. I have read several posts from guys claiming to be techs that admitted that this was the case...that the software upgrade was designed to extend the life of the battery - BY USING IT LESS. That makes sense.

If it was your issue and you cared about it, you would do the research as I have. It's happened to my car and the fact that so many others report the same thing adds credence that we are not all just "grabbing on to something easy". We don't want to be here *****ing about our cars, we want to enjoy them, but first they need to work as they were promised to and not have us worried about getting killed because we don't know when it's going to stall in traffic.

 

see that's where the theory falls apart really fast.

that's why I am asking where its documented that the software updates are bad cause my mileage went up and my recals went down. and, I am not alone on this one so all I'm saying is that we gotta make sure a group of people who have the right to be pi**ed with their car do no speak for the rest of us by ignoring the other side of the story to; and playing it as if they know and speak the truth. they don't and my example and others is proof.

ks

 

Most people have had no effect on recals after the software update...mileage notwithstanding. The pending class action suit will deal with what's the truth. I wouldn't think these guys would have filed if there wasn't something to it.

I don't trust any dealer that tells me that my mileage going from 46 to 33 is "normal operation of the vehicle". My car never recalibrated in 4 years and now it does it every 2-3 minutes. Is that normal?

 

sure there is something to it... like the oldest story in the world: greed and $$$$ and when people want it bad enough like layers do, the hell with truth. I say this cause I am not dismissin the crap other hch owners are going through,I just want to make sure the gossip of some does not become the gospel of others.
"most people" that complain about this never come to GH except when they have something to complain about so dont forget about the others that been here for years and the 100,000 and more that bought this car and could be pluggin the phone lines and every law office and are not.

my problem is with people saying the updates do this and that and that, and then others repeat the BS as if it is gospel...... and they do it when I and others are still around to prove them wrong. Look if you got something wrong about your car then fine take it up with honda as you should and shame on them if they don't take care of you, but pushing a good cause with drivel and hersay attached is not going to help ya one bit cause I'll be standing in the way... and that's the truth.

ks