Hey guys,

Have an 06 HCH2 that I bought used at 88K. Took it in for oil service at 98K and they're telling me CVT fluid needs to be flushed for $188, plus the following:

Coolant: $138
Brake Fluid: $138
Air Filter: $72
Cabin Filter: $38

Is it just me, or are these prices exorbitant?

I've read a few posts on CVT fluid change and found the nice DIY guide on here. Seems pretty straight forward. I understand you leave about 2 quarts of the old in the tranny if you just do a regular drain and fill. I have no idea how long it's been since the fluid was changed, but the tech said it NEEDS to be changed ASAP, so I'm assuming it's in bad shape. Although I don't have any problems with the tranny that I can tell.

I hate to pay $188 for a flush 'cause it seems absolutely insane to me. You think it's okay to get the supplies from the parts dept. and just drain and fill DIY style?

Thanks.

 

I just had my tranny fluid changed (vs. flushed) for $79 at the dealer, and we had a discussion about changing vs. flushing. Honda does not require flushing--at least not at one of the "B123" service intervals.

That being said, if you don't know how the last owner maintained the car (and if they EVER changed the CVT fluid--which should be done every 30k miles), doing a flush might not be a bad idea. If I recall correctly, there are directions somewhere on this site on how to do a full flush--it just takes extra time and lots more fluid to do vs just a change.

 

Do it yourself man

The site has great step by step instructions. It is a great way to get to know your car, and save major money.

I have not changed the brake fluid yet though, but I would go somewhere else, my Mercedes 300 E is only 90.00 dollars

Good luck
Brian

 

I would try a second dealership if possible. A CVT flush might be needed, if the fluid was contaminated. But everything in your description points to a rip, so I doubt the CVT flush is any different. BTW, what is your Maintenance Minder telling you to do, what codes is it showing? You can stick to this. If the dealer gives you the gears for trying to follow the MM, tell them you will verify with Honda. They will likely start singing a different tune

The only thing on your list of service items that is not covered by the MM is brake fluid change, which is spec'd. in your owners manual (did you get it?) as every three years.

Just going through the items:

CVT: $188 < Flush not needed, unless there is evidence of contamination. 3 US quarts of fluid is needed, at around $12~15 per. Easy for DIY. One caveat: after thorough drain, just put in the 3 quarts and forget about it. Hot check of the dipstick is trouble prone and will drive you nuts.

Coolant: $138 < I got charged $17.26CAN for 1 four liter bottle of pre-mix. Genuine Honda. I happened to be getting a Block Heater installed, so was forced to change coolant. Bottom line, it is way too early for this, this is long life coolant. I suspect the MM is not telling you to do this yet. A definite rip! When the MM does tell you to change this, I might consider letting the dealership do it, but shop around: it should be more like $70~80. It is doable yourself, but a bit involved and time consuming.

Just FYI, I picked up a pamphlet titled "Canadian Maintenance Schedule", which gives some time/mileage specs, and for the long life coolant it says 192,000km's or 120 months, and 96000km/60mo thereafter.

Brake Fluid: $138 < As mentioned above, every 3 years recommended. I got charged $79.95CAN for this recently. They're gouging! For advanced DIY'er this is doable, but for reasonable price I would much rather the dealer does this, they have equipment that power evacuates and refills, much safer and efficient.

Air Filter: $72 < I was charged $22.18CAN for the engine air filter. This is something you can do very easily yourself. Just clean off the cover and pop off a few snaps.

Cabin Filter: $38 < Definitely something you can do yourself, just a matter of pushing in the two ends of the glove box and swinging it all the way down. Is the MM calling for this to be changed, or are they just pushing it? I see I was charge $42.30CAN for the cabin filter. Think I got ripped off there, it is not that big an item. I would not replace if the MM is not saying to.

Just for giggles, have a look at the Cabin Filter: you will learn what's involved in getting at it, and will be able to see how dirty it is. I recently had a look at ours, it had a few bugs and some grit, I believe it's due in about 4 months, judging from the previous time/mileage.

Addendum: Regarding the CVT drain/fill, while it is fairly easy DIY, on par with an oil change, the Civic Hybrid's undershield complicates things. You need to ensure you have some way to get the car up and get past that shield. You can either do a low, front end only lift, and completely remove the shield, or raise the whole car about 14" (min), and swing down the hinged front of the shield.

Either way, ensure the raised car is solid and safe: use safety stands, and maybe put things under the car to keep you company, ie: things that are slightly thicker than you and don't compress. A 2-stack of snow tires on rims, on either side, for example.

Alternately, raise the car by driving up on ramps. This is likely safest, but does not give much lift. Personally I never liked driving the car up on the ramps, was always concerned about overshooting, going off the front.

 

I have watched the dealer do the brake fluid - they turn upside down a new open can of Honda dot 3 brake fluid in the master cylinder reservoir and let it sit here - as the fluid get drained it slowly empties the full can of brake fluid so you don't have to stop and pour it in. And use the Harbor Freight brake fluid bleeder (the honda unit is exact same one - it broke when someone forgot to pick it up and drove over it so they bought the replacement at Harbor Freight). I do it with the one man bleeder kit. You need 2 can of dot 3 brake fluid to do it.

total cost 2 cans dot 3 brake fluid at Walmart -$8.98
one man bleeder kit Harbor Frt - $4.99
20 minutes of your time
$14.97 plus tax

get brake helper parts here http://search.harborfreight.com/cpis...eder&Submit=Go

 

I've done the brake bleed by hand (with somebody pushing the brake pedal), and always ended up with brake spongier than it was at the outset. I guess it's a matter of knowing your skill limits.

I was told by my dealership that they used some sort of pressure system to replace the fluid. Maybe they're blowing smoke, don't really know.

If you're doing brake inspection and have the car up and wheels off anyway, I can maybe see that 20 minutes. But as a stand-alone job, I would add 1 hour and a fair bit of grunt work for getting the car up with all 4 wheels off and then restoring it to the ground.

Bottom line for me: I can do some things, but if they're safety critical, a fair bit of hassle, and the pro's charge is not out-of-line, I go that route. Depends on your skill/comfort level.

 

The work order said the CVT fluid needed to be changed because it was inspected and was dirty. I haven't pulled the dipstick to even check the color. I believe the MM was saying 1A.

What color should I be looking for on the dipstick? Clear, tan, ??

 

Regarding MM saying "1A", the "A" is:

"Replace engine oil" (just the oil, not even filter change strictly req'd)

And the "1" is:

"Rotate Tires"

That's really all you need do. I wouldn't even bother with the tire rotation. It's much more practical to rotate the tires at "B" service, which includes brake inspection, meaning the tires have to come off anyway, so...

Did you bring it in because of the MM notice "1A", and this is what they came back with? I would run it by Honda, though not sure if they care. That's sad!

Regarding the CVT fluid, since it's a used car with iffy service history, it wouldn't hurt to get a CVT fluid change, but I would not go for the flush. Do check the CVT fluid condition yourself. It's redish, might have a bit of black particulate showing. If it smells seriously "burnt" that's a bad sign.

Considering how they deal with a customer that comes in for "1A", I would check out another dealership (if possible) and/or talk directly to the service manager.

The only thing I can think of in the dealership's favour: maybe the last owner completely neglected maintenance, was resetting the MM without getting things done. To get more in-the-know, have a look at the two filters they're proposing to change: see for yourself what they look like. If the cabin filter, for example, looks like a small furry animal, that would be in their favour

Do you have the Owners Manual? The MM codes are outlined there. I managed to cobble this together from a pdf format manual I managed to download:

++++++++++++

Maintenance Minder :

Maintenance Main Items (letters):

A: Replace engine oil

B: Replace engine oil and oil filter
Inspect front and rear brakes
Check parking brake adjustment

Inspect these items:
Tie rod ends, steering gear box, and boots
Suspension components
Driveshaft boots
Brake hoses and lines (including ABS)
All fluid levels and condition of fluids
Exhaust system
Fuel lines and connections

Maintenance Sub Items (numbers):

1: Rotate tires

2: Replace air cleaner element
If you drive in dusty conditions, replace
every 15,000 miles (24,000 km).

Replace dust and pollen filter
If you drive primarily in urban areas that have high
concentrations of soot in the air from industry and
from diesel-powered vehicles, replace every 15,000
miles (24,000 km).
Inspect drive belt

3: Replace transmission fluid

4: Replace spark plugs
Inspect valve clearance

5: Replace engine coolant

Notes:

If the message ‘‘SERVICE OIL’’ does not appear more than 12months after
the display is reset, change the engine oil every year.

See information on maintenance and emissions warranty on page 186.

Independent of the maintenance minder display, replace the brake fluid
every 3 years.

Inspect idle speed every 160,000miles (256,000 km).

Adjust the valves during services A, B, 1, 2, or 3 only if they are noisy.

 

I took a look at the cabin filter and it doesn't look bad. I assume the element was originally white and it does have some dirt now, partially grayish looking. But certainly not like a furry animal.

The CVT fluid on the dipstick looked okay to me, redish/tan but definitely not dirty looking. It looked lighter than motor oil to me. No burnt smell. To me it smelled like a cross between gear oil and ATF fluid, or something like that.

Interestingly enough the engine air filter looked the worst to me with a fair amount of grime, especially on one side of the bottom. They said they air filter didn't look too bad, so I wonder if they even looked at it?

Based on your feedback and my observations, it sounds like they were just trying to push services I didn't really need. Especially if the previous owner had it serviced according to the MM, and I don't really have any reason to believe they didn't.

**** greedy dealers!

 

You're on it now

Did it occur to you as you're holding the filters in your hands: "So why am I paying them to put these in?"

There are some decent mechanics. And sometimes the mechanics are decent but they're working in a "mercenary" service department. The Service Manager can really set the tone. Our dealership used to have a very responsible and conciencious Service Manager. He would deal personally with customers, outlining what needed doing, why, explaining your options. He moved on, and the new guy is 180 degrees away.

Anyway, you sound like you have more experience with cars than me

I would just continue to be assertive with those guys, draw their attention to the MM, opt to do a few things yourself. Keep receipts of your work, log what you've done, and if the dealership is doing some things, keep them aware of what you've done.

Since you're second owner it's good to err on side of caution. The brake fluid change is every 3 years, and the CVT fluid change (according to our MM), seems to come up around every 2 years and 40,000km's (maybe 25,000 miles ?). The CVT fluid is one thing I prefer to do more often than the MM says, for insurance, I've opted to change it (myself) yearly. The fluid is expensive, but I work cheap