An update (you'll love this)...

Dropped my HCH II at a local dealer today to have the engine block coolant drain plug removed and the block heater element put in for the quoted price of $56. Then I went to work.

About an hour later I get a call from the service writer who tells me they can't get the drain plug out either *unless* they remove the right-side axle shaft so they could get a clean shot at it with a breaker bar... and that would cost me an additional $149! Ouch! I thought about it for a moment, and decided I really want a block heater, so I gave them approval to go ahead.

Later in the afternoon I send an email to the service writer to see how the job went, and he calls me back. He starts stuttering a bit and tells me they were successful at getting the drain plug out, but in the process the damaged the right-front wheel ABS wire harness, but they of course would pay for that. Only problem is they don't have a replacement wiring harness in stock, so in the mean time the ABS will not function and the "ABS" and "BRAKE SYSTEM" warning lights will stay lit on the instrument panel. No big deal I thought... I've lived without ABS for more years than I've actually had it, and I can ignore the warning lights for a few days. So I made a new appointment for Tuesday of next week to get the new ABS wire harness replaced after it arrives.

It's kind of funny though... this is the first time I've taken a vehicle I own to an outside machanic in probably 15+ years, because they always seem to screw-up two items for every one they fix, and this little episode seems to reinforce this!

Later I picked up the car and drove my 43 mile commute home. Now I'm a bit pissed about the way the car is acting and I **** sure hope that little wiring harness will fix everything...

First off, the Auto-Stop doesn't work at all. According to the Honda shop manual, this is probably understandable, as Auto-Stop is disabled when a fault is detected in any related system. Next, regenerative braking only works under very limited conditions... maybe half as much as it did before. Ditto for IMA battery charging from deceleration. As a result, the IMA battery won't fully charge and I'm also not getting full assist from the IMA.

The Auto-Stop not working I can understand, but the regenerative braking and deceleration has me concerned.

Lastly, I get home, pop the hood, find coolant spilled all over the engine compartment (presumably from when they refilled the radiator), and I find the CVT fluid and coolant levels are low. I peek under the car and found the machanic put the wrong bolts in the wrong locations to hold the undershield on. Makes me wonder what else he did wrong where I can't easily see it.

What fun!

I'll post another update next week once the ABS wire harness is replaced.

Drive safe,

John L.

 

Last update:

Just had the damaged right-front wheel ABS sensor wiring harness replaced at the local dealer (no charge). Everything is back now to normal.

With the sensor broken, I lost about 2-3 mpg due to the Auto-Stop not working and regenerative deceleration and braking not working below about 35 mph (see previous posts).

BTW, before I left the dealership, I spoke to the Honda mechanic who did the work on my car. He told me it's pretty much impossible to remove the engine block coolant plug on the rear of the engine without removing the right axle shaft first.

Definitely not a job for those without good tools and patience.

I installed the engine block heater wiring harness this past weekend. Because it's *not* the kit for the hybrid (the kit I bought is for a regular Civic), the harness is too short to route via Honda's instructions. Instead, I had to use an alternate routing, but it still worked out fine. Now my Civic is ready for a cold winter.

Drive safe,

John L.

 

I wonder if you had originally opted for the dealer to do the entire install for $164 labor, would they have asked you for the additional $149 to remove the axle or sucked it up and did the extra labor at no additional charge?

Oh well, glad everything worked out in the end.

Matt

 

[QUOTE=sixpak]I wonder if you had originally opted for the dealer to do the entire install for $164 labor, would they have asked you for the additional $149 to remove the axle or sucked it up and did the extra labor at no additional charge?[QUOTE]Matt,

I've wondered about that too.

I do know that the service writers at the dealership I used are a lot wiser now about the time required to install a block heater in the hybrid. If asked to quote the job again, surely they would add the axle removal to the time.

I forgot to mention earlier that I asked the Honda mechanic if he'd had the opportunity to work on many hybrids yet. He said "no"... they don't see many of them in the shop. That pretty much confirms why many owners here on the forum report frustrating repair experiences at dealers.

I still need to have the heating element installed in my wife's HCHII, and despite the cost, I'm inclined to have the same mechanic at the same dealership do the work, because at least he should be able to do an ever better job this time around. Ya know, I've never had a problem with paying for good work. In fact, I don't even mind *tipping* a mechanic for great work. I mean why not... most of us tip waiters and waitresses for the normal mediocre service we've become accustomed to getting.

Best regards,

John L.

 

here is how i got mine out,

i cut a breaker bar down to exactly the longest length that would fit
this length positioned it on the passenger side shock tower, directly below what I remember to be rigid ABS lines.
i then put a small piece of very thin wood about 1/8 of an inch behind the breaker
next i put a pry bar between the piece of wood and the shock tower, using the wood to protect the shock tower. I pried it with the bar and it snapped loose. I was then able to take it out by hand.

then coolant drained all over the floor, you cant get a big enough pan to catch it all.
I know this thread is old, but I wanted to post how i got mine loose in case anyone else searches.

 

I'd just like to add: I've removed the coolant engine drain bolt on *previous* Hondas. It's never easy, and access is tough. But it sounds like HCHII is a real bear, both for torque and access. FYI, the torque spec. in the shop manual is 58 lb/ft. One suspicion, maybe they put liquid gasket on the threads at the factory? I seem to recollect this being mentioned in shop manuals for older Honda's we've had, and if memory serves there was some white gunk in the threads, in my past experience. But it's not mentioned in the '06 Civic Hybrid Shop Manual, which I have. Might be the case though...

I guess when it comes time to replace coolant (which is a long interval, at least) that block heater has to come out again, to drain the engine block.

Very interesting (horror) story, thanks for passing that on. I was thinking to put a Block Heater in our '06 hybrid. I did find the Honda PDF instruction, and have checked with the dealership: they're currently asking $161 Canadian.

All things considered, including our coastal climate, I'll likely pass.

 

Some more comments:

I'm still contemplating doing my own 06 civic hybrid block heater install. After gyropilot's walk-in-the-park I figure why not

Anyway, today I did some online window shopping. Here's some info I noted:

++++

block heater kit part no: 08T44-SVB-100 <US
block heater kit part no: 08T44-SVB-300 <CDN (identical? I think so.)

Prices for above:

$54US through San Leandro Honda: http://www.slhondaparts.com/ <no ship to Canada?
$49.50US ($7.50US shipping)through http://www.YourHondaParts.com <best bet?
$44.22US through http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com <possibly wrong part, reg. civic?
<emailed above Sunday, November 23, 2008 re shipping cost>

For reference: Honda Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant Type 2 Part no: OL999/9001

++++

Anyways, looking through the pdf instruction, I got to wondering why it calls for removal of cowl cover and then cowl. One hunch: it really opens up access to the rear of the engine compartment. So I thought I'd give it a dry run:

By far the longest time in the whole removal was removing the first 3 plastic push-through fasteners on the cowl cover, without breaking them. The rest of the cowl cover securing is by hidden pins on the underside, and the whole thing comes with patient force at one corner and then the other. The windshield washer fluid hoses connect at the underside of cowl cover and needs to be disconnected.

With (plastic) cowl cover removed you see the black metal cowl under. It has nine bolts into tackwelded nuts on the car body, some 10mm (wrench size) and some 12. The center 3 bolts along the length are a bit of a reach, especially the center one. Just take care to get a finger on the bolt as you pull it out on the end of the socket. At that point the cowl still appears to be stuck: there is a tacky gasket on the underside. Just gently pull up, one end, then the other, and it will finally lift off.

Now, you have a really improved view and access to the rear of the engine compartment. If you have a 1/2" drive torque wrench with a standard length 19mm socket, preferably 6 face I think, you should be able to break loose the engine block coolant drain plug, from above.

So far, I've put such a drive on the bolt, but with a 3/8" drive (12 face) socket on a 1/2" to 3/8" drive adapter extension. This pushed the torque wrench back a bit too far, and the 12 points made me nervous about rounding the bolt. I tried with a fair bit of force, just to see if I could break it lose, with no luck.

So, I quit while ahead and buttoned everything back up. Well, except for those first 3 push-through plastic fasteners. I sub'd. plastic license plate securing nut/bolts there, so I (or whoever) would never need to struggle with those again.

Even if I get a block heater dealer installed, I think I learned something. Removal of this cowel would greatly fascilitate doing a valve clearance check. The 06 civic hybrid has a wiring harness running along top of the valve cover that's nigh impossible to remove. The only way to deal with this harness is to lift it and rotate it out of the way. With the cowl gone there is a lot more room to rotate it back and secure it.

 

Light bulb just went on as to a strong, 6 faced, 19mm wrench option I have on hand, with just about optimum dimension between end of socket and center of handle:

the in-the-trunk Honda wheel nut lug wrench. I've got a couple of pipes on hand that I can use to extend the handle if needed.

 

Let us know if that lug wrench works. It sure would be convenient.

 

I caved in: booked a Saturday morning appointment to have the dealership put it in ;(

The part price from the dealership was $100CAN, and with their offer to install for addition $60 I figured let them deal with it. Of course *after* the booking and the qoute, they phoned back, when they realized a coolant exchange *was* involved. They've said they'll only add the cost of coolant to the bill.

Regarding the $100CAN, I could order the part through a US mail order for just under $50US, and they confirmed via email my shipping would be $20US, to western Canada, but at this point I just let go: to me $20~30 saving is just not worth the hassle, and possible foul-ups.

One thing, I find even if I don't follow through on something, I'll usually learn something in the process: I think I've found a good way to get at the coolant drain plug on the block, and fascilitate checking the engine valves if I get around to it. With the cowl off there is a lot more elbow room between the engine and firewall.