http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/13/g...-cell-vehicle/

 

Doesn't this thing violate most of the rules of Thermodynamics.... Somehow we are cracking water without putting in energy. Burning the hydrogen produced in a fuel cell making energy and producing water again....

Where did the energy come from? Magic?

The only way I can see it working is if something in that MEA is used up in the reaction.... and THAT would actually the fuel for the vehicle... not the water. Because you'd have to replenish that.

 

Well, yes. In fact, if it actually worked as claimed, it would have to 'extract' energy from the environment and actually cool the earth behind it. The faster it went, the more it would chill like the Delorian in "Back To The Future." <GRINS>

Of course it might be powered by a "cold fusion" power plant, the Pons solution!!

Bob Wilson

 

The way you extract energy from water has been around for about 100 years, it' called electrolysis. You put a current into water using a conductor (usually stainless steel to prevent rusting) and it separates the hydrogen from the oxygen in H20. The hydrogen is separated and used as fuel. Any waste converts back to H20. The hard part is making enough hydrogen to off set the cost of making it AND not having to use fossil fuels to make it which kind of defeats the purpose of making it.

 

It's not running off of water. It's seperating the hydrogen from the oxygen and then runs off of the hydrogen.

 

And the energy is derived from the hydrogen by combining it with oxygen. Basic chemistry and common sense tells you that the maximum energy available in this system is ZERO.

 

As the old saying goes..."if it seems to good to be true...it probably is"

You can only change energy from one type...to another. ie, kenetic energy to electrical, thermal to mechanical...and there are always losses in doing this. Substantial losses!

Energy cannot be created or destroyed...only changed. And...there will always been a price to pay.

This is sort like that other rubbish that someone is trying to flog off as science. Stick a couple of bottles of water under your hood with 12vdc running through it and...bingo H2O splits into oxygen and hydrogen - shove it into the air intake and .....walla instant power and increased fuel economy.

Well I'll be........

 

Yes but you aren't "extracting" energy from that water... you are using the water/hydrogen as a storage medium. You have to put slightly MORE energy into the electrolysis that ends up "stored" in the potential energy of the hydrogen that wants to BURN to release it. You will get slightly less back out when you "burn" it back into water... conservation of energy... you've formed a complete loop from water back to water, you can't "take" energy out of that, only loose it. Best you can do is break even.

So... essentially unless you have a huge source of hydrogen just lying around (wanna mine Jupiter anyone?)... your ultimate energy source is whatever you burned to make the hydrogen in the first place.

Fuel cells are a great idea in that they condense all the energy conversion somewhere, and that system can be made more efficient than an ICE (and possibly be wind, hydroelectric, hydrothermal...etc)... but when people say they are "emissions free" they are wrong.

Its only emissions free **IF** you had a ready source of natural hydrogen and can "dig" it up. Otherwise its just a way to store energy from the powerplant and it all depends on what the powerplant uses. If we converted every car in the world to run on fuel cells emissions from tailpipes (other than water vapor) would disappear....replaced by larger emissions from fossil fuel electrical plants (coal, oil, natrual gas) unless something is done there as well (nuclear, hydroelectric, solar, wind). The plants would produce less than all the cars because they are more efficient... but the improvement would be limited by the fact that the energy comes ULTIMATELY from fossil fuels for the most part using current technology.

In short the car doesn't "RUN" on water. Whatever is going on in that "MEA" requires energy input... either from a plug into a wall or a chemical reaction that will use up its reactants and require fuel.

 

hello everyone,
This is really good information and thanks!! I found something about conversion that may interest you:
http://car-hydrogen.net/

enjoy and learning is good....

 

We aren't talking about:

• driving on or off boats?
• driving on the few remaining frozen lakes and ice roads?

Bob Wilson