Bought a 2013 Cmax Hybrid (first impressions)
#1
10-23-2014, 03:21 PM
Bought a 2013 Cmax Hybrid (first impressions)
Finally had to bite the bullet and buy a new car after my 20 yr old Ford Ranger started to balk at my hypermiling antics. While in a perfect world I would have gotten the Energi, could not justify the additional 5 to 10 thousand dollar real/perceived cost to pull that off.
2013 Cmax Hybrid - CPO - 26k miles
Price out the door - $20,500 including 500 extended warranty
Expected total from Edmunds - $25,500
So serious buyers seem to have the upper hand at least in my neck of the woods (East Texas), but only time will tell if I got the rock bottom fair price or if I worked the dealership over as hard as they wanted me to believe.
Only thing I would do differently is to make the dealer hunt down and price a comparable Energi prior to purchase so I'd have no lingering doubts about what could have been. Do remember to include the cost of a charger in your calculations.
Key Shopping Points
1. Assume you know more than the salesman about the car. I knew just enough to be dangerous and he really seemed to only know the standard Ford selling points. (particularly the spare tire issue. No spare, but there is a possibility the fix-a-flat/compressor combo under the passenger seat can save you a wait for the tow truck, IF you know it's there)
2. Dont fall for the it'll be gone tomorrow line, even if it's the only hybrid within miles and miles. Got ~1500 dollars off just by insisting on time to do some due diligence prior to purchase. Truth is, if you are a serious hybrid buyer, you are a rare breed and likely have the upper hand in negotiations.
3. Extended warranty - your call, I finally gave in due to the serious upgrade in doohickeys vs my shade tree mechanic friendly 94 Ranger. Dont pay 1500 for it though, make them 'give' it to your for 500 or less. Remember you can price shop other dealers if they wont budge.
4. Never hurts to show up the last day of the month once you are ready to pull the trigger. They had just lowered the price and I still got another ~1500 off the reduced price, mainly due to walking in the last day of the month and unwilling to pull the trigger without a bit of further research.
5. Run the vin past the Service Department at the dealership and verify they have a hybrid certified mechanic for your peace of mind. Despite assurances from the well meaning if clueless salesman that the 2013 fuel mileage update had been done, running the vin showed 2 TSBs overdue including the one I'd asked about. (although the service department is unwilling to call the PCM update an attempt to increase fuel mileage, since driving habits are the key to good mpg)
6. You do not need the nav package to utilize EV+ mode, just do a lifetime reset when you drive it off the lot and wait a few weeks for it to figure out your frequent stops. Not as effective in the hybrid as in the energi, but nice to know it does function without having to buy the nav package if you are not interested in it and can save you one final ICE on as you near your stop.
Of course that's just the car buying experience side of it, but best to start off things on a positive note before you start delving into the ins/outs of actually getting the mind blowing mpgs we are searching for.
Top Selling Point of Cmax vs other hybrids/phevs (IMHO)
I fit
Definitely worth a look if you are over 6' tall and just cant risk the chance of a speed bump induced concussion that the prius seems to have for me. I also did not fit in the Fusion or Edge, so the Cmax was a pleasant surprise since I can fit my fist between my head and the roof easily. Nice compromise for the truck guy that doesnt relish the thought of having to buy a small car he can barely get in to get decent gas mileage. As long as ground clearance doesnt factor into the equation.
Weak Points
1. Rides a bit low, so if you really need some ground clearance for your new ride you'll have to wait for something comparable to the Hybrid Explorer. Smooth enough ride generally speaking, but with 51 psi in the tires potholes and small bumps are a bit more noticeable than in my old Ranger.
2. Possible to get 999.9 mpg for 1 mile trip from store with 3/4+ SOC, if you can make it to EV+ range of house before accidentally engaging ICE, but if you want to really push that envelope you need to look into the Energi. On short runs, if the ICE engages for any reason your mpgs drop fast to 150's, then 50's, and possibly high 20's if the ICE runs for the entire mile. Known issue of hybrid vs plug-in, but really hits home when you really wish you had a 2-5 EV range for short trips vs the 1-2 EV range you might get from the hybrid.
3. While the coaching system is helpful in judging your overall performance, the feedback is more after the fact. Hard to find the right combo of readouts to fine tune your driving to max out mpg. Not sure how much more I could get out of an aftermarket scanner, but feel it will be necessary down the line if I really want to push the envelope and see where gains might be possible or to find the sweet spot for mph on my regular drives.
4. Useless right hand screen on dash. While the leaves are pretty and all the first few days, really REALLY wish I could put MyView up on the right and Engage screen on the left instead of having to shuffle between them to get all the feedback I'm interested in. (believe this is an issue on all Ford models so far, not sure how the other hybrids fair in this regard)
5. Minor issue - if you find the Hybrid Drive Info screen handy as another form of feedback, you must activate it every time you start the vehicle. Have yet to find a setting to make it the default screen on startup.
Overall I'm pleased with the performance so far, but will hold off on a final judgement till I have a year worth of tanks in my fuel log to get a clearer picture of performance and begin to hone in on those sweet spots for acceleration, braking, and cruising. Really like the balance between power when I need it to merge with traffic and smooth slow acceleration when I feel like pushing the envelope of mpg.
Current lifetime mileage since purchase - 43.5 mpg
Final thoughts
All things being equal, the Energi seems to be the way to go if you can find a good deal, have access to charging, and want to pull regular 999.9's puttering around the block. Hybrid does great on carefully driven mid to long range runs, but is a bear to get high mpgs on the shorter jaunts or if you have to punch it to keep up with traffic flow and misjudge the lights.
If you are like me and overall price is a big issue, the hybrid barely edges out the Energi, but not by as much as you may think if you play hardball, search around a bit, and can deal with leather seats. Might also get a better deal on the hybrid if they'd rather sell you the one they have on the lot vs getting a comparable Energi from the dealer one city over.
Hopefully over the course of the 8 yr warranty period, an affordable add-on plug in kit will become available. Till then I'll just have to 'settle' for tripling my average fuel economy. Guess I shouldn't be too greedy, but I feel so inspired each time I visit this forum.
2013 Cmax Hybrid - CPO - 26k miles
Price out the door - $20,500 including 500 extended warranty
Expected total from Edmunds - $25,500
So serious buyers seem to have the upper hand at least in my neck of the woods (East Texas), but only time will tell if I got the rock bottom fair price or if I worked the dealership over as hard as they wanted me to believe.
Only thing I would do differently is to make the dealer hunt down and price a comparable Energi prior to purchase so I'd have no lingering doubts about what could have been. Do remember to include the cost of a charger in your calculations.
Key Shopping Points
1. Assume you know more than the salesman about the car. I knew just enough to be dangerous and he really seemed to only know the standard Ford selling points. (particularly the spare tire issue. No spare, but there is a possibility the fix-a-flat/compressor combo under the passenger seat can save you a wait for the tow truck, IF you know it's there)
2. Dont fall for the it'll be gone tomorrow line, even if it's the only hybrid within miles and miles. Got ~1500 dollars off just by insisting on time to do some due diligence prior to purchase. Truth is, if you are a serious hybrid buyer, you are a rare breed and likely have the upper hand in negotiations.
3. Extended warranty - your call, I finally gave in due to the serious upgrade in doohickeys vs my shade tree mechanic friendly 94 Ranger. Dont pay 1500 for it though, make them 'give' it to your for 500 or less. Remember you can price shop other dealers if they wont budge.
4. Never hurts to show up the last day of the month once you are ready to pull the trigger. They had just lowered the price and I still got another ~1500 off the reduced price, mainly due to walking in the last day of the month and unwilling to pull the trigger without a bit of further research.
5. Run the vin past the Service Department at the dealership and verify they have a hybrid certified mechanic for your peace of mind. Despite assurances from the well meaning if clueless salesman that the 2013 fuel mileage update had been done, running the vin showed 2 TSBs overdue including the one I'd asked about. (although the service department is unwilling to call the PCM update an attempt to increase fuel mileage, since driving habits are the key to good mpg)
6. You do not need the nav package to utilize EV+ mode, just do a lifetime reset when you drive it off the lot and wait a few weeks for it to figure out your frequent stops. Not as effective in the hybrid as in the energi, but nice to know it does function without having to buy the nav package if you are not interested in it and can save you one final ICE on as you near your stop.
Of course that's just the car buying experience side of it, but best to start off things on a positive note before you start delving into the ins/outs of actually getting the mind blowing mpgs we are searching for.
Top Selling Point of Cmax vs other hybrids/phevs (IMHO)
I fit
Definitely worth a look if you are over 6' tall and just cant risk the chance of a speed bump induced concussion that the prius seems to have for me. I also did not fit in the Fusion or Edge, so the Cmax was a pleasant surprise since I can fit my fist between my head and the roof easily. Nice compromise for the truck guy that doesnt relish the thought of having to buy a small car he can barely get in to get decent gas mileage. As long as ground clearance doesnt factor into the equation.
Weak Points
1. Rides a bit low, so if you really need some ground clearance for your new ride you'll have to wait for something comparable to the Hybrid Explorer. Smooth enough ride generally speaking, but with 51 psi in the tires potholes and small bumps are a bit more noticeable than in my old Ranger.
2. Possible to get 999.9 mpg for 1 mile trip from store with 3/4+ SOC, if you can make it to EV+ range of house before accidentally engaging ICE, but if you want to really push that envelope you need to look into the Energi. On short runs, if the ICE engages for any reason your mpgs drop fast to 150's, then 50's, and possibly high 20's if the ICE runs for the entire mile. Known issue of hybrid vs plug-in, but really hits home when you really wish you had a 2-5 EV range for short trips vs the 1-2 EV range you might get from the hybrid.
3. While the coaching system is helpful in judging your overall performance, the feedback is more after the fact. Hard to find the right combo of readouts to fine tune your driving to max out mpg. Not sure how much more I could get out of an aftermarket scanner, but feel it will be necessary down the line if I really want to push the envelope and see where gains might be possible or to find the sweet spot for mph on my regular drives.
4. Useless right hand screen on dash. While the leaves are pretty and all the first few days, really REALLY wish I could put MyView up on the right and Engage screen on the left instead of having to shuffle between them to get all the feedback I'm interested in. (believe this is an issue on all Ford models so far, not sure how the other hybrids fair in this regard)
5. Minor issue - if you find the Hybrid Drive Info screen handy as another form of feedback, you must activate it every time you start the vehicle. Have yet to find a setting to make it the default screen on startup.
Overall I'm pleased with the performance so far, but will hold off on a final judgement till I have a year worth of tanks in my fuel log to get a clearer picture of performance and begin to hone in on those sweet spots for acceleration, braking, and cruising. Really like the balance between power when I need it to merge with traffic and smooth slow acceleration when I feel like pushing the envelope of mpg.
Current lifetime mileage since purchase - 43.5 mpg
Final thoughts
All things being equal, the Energi seems to be the way to go if you can find a good deal, have access to charging, and want to pull regular 999.9's puttering around the block. Hybrid does great on carefully driven mid to long range runs, but is a bear to get high mpgs on the shorter jaunts or if you have to punch it to keep up with traffic flow and misjudge the lights.
If you are like me and overall price is a big issue, the hybrid barely edges out the Energi, but not by as much as you may think if you play hardball, search around a bit, and can deal with leather seats. Might also get a better deal on the hybrid if they'd rather sell you the one they have on the lot vs getting a comparable Energi from the dealer one city over.
Hopefully over the course of the 8 yr warranty period, an affordable add-on plug in kit will become available. Till then I'll just have to 'settle' for tripling my average fuel economy. Guess I shouldn't be too greedy, but I feel so inspired each time I visit this forum.
#2
10-30-2014, 01:17 PM
Re: Bought a 2013 Cmax Hybrid (first impressions)
I'll have to remember to check this forum every now and then. It doesn't get much use.
You don't say which model you got. Is it the SEL? SE? Nor which warranty - is it ESP Premium care? Which deductible?
I own the Energi, and that right screen stays on Nav, which I find convenient since it shows all the data I like, including the speed limit on the current road.
I'm not sure what you mean by Drive Info, but keep in mind that my 2014 has somewhat different programming.
You don't say which model you got. Is it the SEL? SE? Nor which warranty - is it ESP Premium care? Which deductible?
I own the Energi, and that right screen stays on Nav, which I find convenient since it shows all the data I like, including the speed limit on the current road.
I'm not sure what you mean by Drive Info, but keep in mind that my 2014 has somewhat different programming.
#3
10-31-2014, 06:15 PM
Re: Bought a 2013 Cmax Hybrid (first impressions)
SE, I really didnt want the leather seats. Main reason I never gave the NRG a hard enough look. Wished I'd played hardball and at least priced the NRG (lol, took me a week to figure that shorthand out.) could have shaved another 2k off the price I think. Not positive on the warranty, think it was the full monte ESP Premium, and that comment about deductible has me worried I failed to read all the fine print??
Always seems that dealing with dealership leaves me afraid of getting screwed one way or the other, so really just crossing fingers I wont need to use the warranty coverage. Only real gripes I have with the 2013 vs 2014 is the nod to aero mods by ford with the hood seal, etc. Feel a bit cheated, but not sure they will give the mpg boost that more aggressive mods could, so not the end of the world.
Kinda see the point in the back up cam after a month of driving, so that would have been a nice addition, but may be just getting used to the new ride. Nav would be nice for free, but I wasnt gonna pay for it or leather seats. Although I can see how it would give that right screen a purpose.
Drive Info
Was mainly talking about the trip counter that shows when you key off. Really nice handy snapshot of each leg of a trip, but would be nice if that was available while driving, without having to remember to reset Trip 2 every time you start up. (I'm trying to only reset Trip 1 on fill up)
Still on the learning curve, but always seems like the info I really want is on another screen. MyView (Rpm / Temp), then scroll up to Engage to get the kW/InstFuelMileage screen. But a bit tricky to determine which is most important balance for fuel mileage.
Still have no clue what the difference is in Empower/Enlighten?, but the kW seems to be a little different scale maybe? Shows 1 bar in Engage but scrolling to the Empower seems to show slightly less than 1 bar, with pedal held steady. So will have to do some digging/observation to determine if it's actually giving a slightly different bit of information or is all in my head.
In the end, figure I need to just drive / log mileage for a year, then focus on finessing the max out of it before I drive myself insane.
But I wanna beat that mpg horse as hard as I can for some reason from the git go. ~50 mpg seems like best I can hope for without the bigger battery in the NRG, but hoping in 7 yrs someone will figure out a way to soup it up for 2-3k and I'll have all the pluses of NRG with the SE cloth seats and cargo room that I prefer.
See there I go off the deep end again. I want it all and I want it NOW!
Overall I think I'd have been happier with the Energi and might have even been able to afford one, just didnt believe I could quite swing it and the Hybrid was a nice compromise for the time being. Should be a hypermiling beast once I break the secret code and find the sweet spot for both my seat and my foot on the gas pedal.
Always seems that dealing with dealership leaves me afraid of getting screwed one way or the other, so really just crossing fingers I wont need to use the warranty coverage. Only real gripes I have with the 2013 vs 2014 is the nod to aero mods by ford with the hood seal, etc. Feel a bit cheated, but not sure they will give the mpg boost that more aggressive mods could, so not the end of the world.
Kinda see the point in the back up cam after a month of driving, so that would have been a nice addition, but may be just getting used to the new ride. Nav would be nice for free, but I wasnt gonna pay for it or leather seats. Although I can see how it would give that right screen a purpose.
Drive Info
Was mainly talking about the trip counter that shows when you key off. Really nice handy snapshot of each leg of a trip, but would be nice if that was available while driving, without having to remember to reset Trip 2 every time you start up. (I'm trying to only reset Trip 1 on fill up)
Still on the learning curve, but always seems like the info I really want is on another screen. MyView (Rpm / Temp), then scroll up to Engage to get the kW/InstFuelMileage screen. But a bit tricky to determine which is most important balance for fuel mileage.
Still have no clue what the difference is in Empower/Enlighten?, but the kW seems to be a little different scale maybe? Shows 1 bar in Engage but scrolling to the Empower seems to show slightly less than 1 bar, with pedal held steady. So will have to do some digging/observation to determine if it's actually giving a slightly different bit of information or is all in my head.
In the end, figure I need to just drive / log mileage for a year, then focus on finessing the max out of it before I drive myself insane.
But I wanna beat that mpg horse as hard as I can for some reason from the git go. ~50 mpg seems like best I can hope for without the bigger battery in the NRG, but hoping in 7 yrs someone will figure out a way to soup it up for 2-3k and I'll have all the pluses of NRG with the SE cloth seats and cargo room that I prefer. See there I go off the deep end again. I want it all and I want it NOW!
Overall I think I'd have been happier with the Energi and might have even been able to afford one, just didnt believe I could quite swing it and the Hybrid was a nice compromise for the time being. Should be a hypermiling beast once I break the secret code and find the sweet spot for both my seat and my foot on the gas pedal.
#4
09-21-2019, 09:02 AM
Re: Bought a 2013 Cmax Hybrid (first impressions)
SE, I really didnt want the leather seats. Main reason I never gave the NRG a hard enough look. Wished I'd played hardball and at least priced the NRG (lol, took me a week to figure that shorthand out.) could have shaved another 2k off the price I think. Not positive on the warranty, think it was the full monte ESP Premium, and that comment about deductible has me worried I failed to read all the fine print??
Always seems that dealing with dealership leaves me afraid of getting screwed one way or the other, so really just crossing fingers I wont need to use the warranty coverage. Only real gripes I have with the 2013 vs 2014 is the nod to aero mods by ford with the hood seal, etc. Feel a bit cheated, but not sure they will give the mpg boost that more aggressive mods could, so not the end of the world.
Kinda see the point in the back up cam after a month of driving, so that would have been a nice addition, but may be just getting used to the new ride. Nav would be nice for free, but I wasnt gonna pay for it or leather seats. Although I can see how it would give that right screen a purpose.
Drive Info
Was mainly talking about the trip counter that shows when you key off. Really nice handy snapshot of each leg of a trip, but would be nice if that was available while driving, without having to remember to reset Trip 2 every time you start up. (I'm trying to only reset Trip 1 on fill up)
Still on the learning curve, but always seems like the info I really want is on another screen. MyView (Rpm / Temp), then scroll up to Engage to get the kW/InstFuelMileage screen. But a bit tricky to determine which is most important balance for fuel mileage.
Still have no clue what the difference is in Empower/Enlighten?, but the kW seems to be a little different scale maybe? Shows 1 bar in Engage but scrolling to the Empower seems to show slightly less than 1 bar, with pedal held steady. So will have to do some digging/observation to determine if it's actually giving a slightly different bit of information or is all in my head.
In the end, figure I need to just drive / log mileage for a year, then focus on finessing the max out of it before I drive myself insane. But I wanna beat that mpg horse as hard as I can for some reason from the git go. ~50 mpg seems like best I can hope for without the bigger battery in the NRG, but hoping in 7 yrs someone will figure out a way to soup it up for 2-3k and I'll have all the pluses of NRG with the SE cloth seats and cargo room that I prefer.
See there I go off the deep end again. I want it all and I want it NOW!
Overall I think I'd have been happier with the Energi and might have even been able to afford one, just didnt believe I could quite swing it and the Hybrid was a nice compromise for the time being. Should be a hypermiling beast once I break the secret code and find the sweet spot for both my seat and my foot on the gas pedal.
Always seems that dealing with dealership leaves me afraid of getting screwed one way or the other, so really just crossing fingers I wont need to use the warranty coverage. Only real gripes I have with the 2013 vs 2014 is the nod to aero mods by ford with the hood seal, etc. Feel a bit cheated, but not sure they will give the mpg boost that more aggressive mods could, so not the end of the world.
Kinda see the point in the back up cam after a month of driving, so that would have been a nice addition, but may be just getting used to the new ride. Nav would be nice for free, but I wasnt gonna pay for it or leather seats. Although I can see how it would give that right screen a purpose.
Drive Info
Was mainly talking about the trip counter that shows when you key off. Really nice handy snapshot of each leg of a trip, but would be nice if that was available while driving, without having to remember to reset Trip 2 every time you start up. (I'm trying to only reset Trip 1 on fill up)
Still on the learning curve, but always seems like the info I really want is on another screen. MyView (Rpm / Temp), then scroll up to Engage to get the kW/InstFuelMileage screen. But a bit tricky to determine which is most important balance for fuel mileage.
Still have no clue what the difference is in Empower/Enlighten?, but the kW seems to be a little different scale maybe? Shows 1 bar in Engage but scrolling to the Empower seems to show slightly less than 1 bar, with pedal held steady. So will have to do some digging/observation to determine if it's actually giving a slightly different bit of information or is all in my head.
In the end, figure I need to just drive / log mileage for a year, then focus on finessing the max out of it before I drive myself insane.
But I wanna beat that mpg horse as hard as I can for some reason from the git go. ~50 mpg seems like best I can hope for without the bigger battery in the NRG, but hoping in 7 yrs someone will figure out a way to soup it up for 2-3k and I'll have all the pluses of NRG with the SE cloth seats and cargo room that I prefer.See there I go off the deep end again. I want it all and I want it NOW!
Overall I think I'd have been happier with the Energi and might have even been able to afford one, just didnt believe I could quite swing it and the Hybrid was a nice compromise for the time being. Should be a hypermiling beast once I break the secret code and find the sweet spot for both my seat and my foot on the gas pedal.
, so I have to settle for the grocery store free charging station. I paid a bit more than half of MSRP with the extended warranty as a 2 year old car. Only two were available 'locally' ($800 apart), but the one that I liked,and bought, was in Vermont ! Beautiful scenery, fun winding and hilly roads, and an absolute BEAR on the return trip in an unfamiliar new car! In The Rain! Aside from wanting seats two inches wider ( this replaced a 19 year old Chrysler T&C) and getting used to the controls, AND the very different brakes, I like it. 41MPG so far. I'm still trying to set all of the displays up to the most informative way. I have discovered that the navigation system works MUCH BETTER when I attach my phone (Google Maps), but that eats my data at an EXPENSIVE rate 😡.
Last edited by Bob.J; 09-21-2019 at 09:05 AM.
#5
10-05-2019, 07:07 AM
Re: Bought a 2013 Cmax Hybrid (first impressions)
Your 17 Energi has the air cooled HVB system (as do all C-Max) which is, or can be, deficient for warm weather. The fans on the HVB do not turn on until the cabin air temperature is 8 F cooler than the HVB. When they turn on, you are lucky to obtain 1-2F drop in temperature per hour. Sitting in the parking lot in the hot summer sun can easily raise the temperature of the HVB into the 90's. Then you are going to have to turn on the air conditioner and direct it down and (temperature sensor is low in the passenger side) and hope for the best.
#6
10-05-2019, 08:57 AM
Re: Bought a 2013 Cmax Hybrid (first impressions)
Your 17 Energi has the air cooled HVB system (as do all C-Max) which is, or can be, deficient for warm weather. The fans on the HVB do not turn on until the cabin air temperature is 8 F cooler than the HVB. When they turn on, you are lucky to obtain 1-2F drop in temperature per hour. Sitting in the parking lot in the hot summer sun can easily raise the temperature of the HVB into the 90's. Then you are going to have to turn on the air conditioner and direct it down and (temperature sensor is low in the passenger side) and hope for the best.
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